UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Both Leeds and Portsmouth financed their attempts at improvement by borrowing, in the case of Leeds using the club's assets as security. Another way of expressing this is saying they took on debts which the clubs had little chance of paying back without spectacular success on the pitch. This is entirely different from the City model of investment, but unlike City's model, it doesn't seem to attract UEFA's wrath in some cases.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The Premier league has FFP based loosely on the UEFA model. It stops you increasing wages by x amount per annum. That alone would have saved Leeds and Portsmouth. Leeds wages increased by nearly 50% in 2001, that couldn't happen now.

So basically, if you are already rich & have a huge income due to years of Champions League exposure & time spent near the top of the Premier League, generating money directly from CL tv payments but also by selling merch to the people around the world who have seen you pushed on tv every week, then you can pay Alexi Sanchez 500k pw to sit on his arse, & your wage bill is already so high, the 'extra' 500k pw, doesn't even push it up by a significant percentage.

So Utd are there, with a wage bill of over 300 mil, & along come Leeds for example, a club with great 'history' who have played in European Cup finals.

But they are struggling to finance a 30 mil wage bill.

But let's imagine it's no problem, because they are lucky enough to be taken over by a relative of Sheikh Mansour who is willing to finance them, same as City were in the early days of our takeover. They can try to spend, to bridge the gap to the teams who have been coining it in due to 20 odd years of Champs Lg finance.

Ah but, even though Leeds uncover 3 or 4 future stars from around the world at 10 mil each, & make some brilliant signings, at a great price, for other positions, it puts their wage bill up to 45 mil.

So they can just fuck off. Not allowed.

Whilst Utd spunk away money on Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, any one of which costs more than the whole increase Leeds, as a club, are allowed to make.

So each year, Leeds try to get that little bit closer by increasing their wage bill a little & each year Utd etc, spend even more increasing their wage bill by more than Leeds & get further away & if Leeds do get a top player, Utd etc steal him by persuading him to push for a move, so get him cheap (a bit like Bayern Munich do).

So 40 years later, Utd, with American owners fleecing the club, are still able to pay the next Sanchez 4 mil a week & Leeds, with an owner who wants to put money in, are still not able to pay the wage bill Utd are paying now.


Welcome to Financial Fair Play, a system designed to stop clubs who are not already rich, from competing with those who are.

 

[bluemanchester]

How were clubs like Spurs and Everton so gullible to fall for Platini and Utd's bullshit when it clearly would stop them ever emulating us or Chelsea?

The sooner we can destroy this bullshit once and for all in court the better.

As we are now in no danger of falling foul of FFP, why should we take it to court to destroy it and help clubs who have had no regard for us in our difficult times. Remember which clubs agreed to the away teams getting less of gate receipts, which teams were instrumental in the premier league and the famous five letter on Arsenal headed notepaper. Take on FFP, what advantage is that to us.

 

[BigBluey]

So basically, if you are already rich & have a huge income due to years of Champions League exposure & time spent near the top of the Premier League, generating money directly from CL tv payments but also by selling merch to the people around the world who have seen you pushed on tv every week, then you can pay Alexi Sanchez 500k pw to sit on his arse, & your wage bill is already so high, the 'extra' 500k pw, doesn't even push it up by a significant percentage.

So Utd are there, with a wage bill of over 300 mil, & along come Leeds for example, a club with great 'history' who have played in European Cup finals.

But they are struggling to finance a 30 mil wage bill.

But let's imagine it's no problem, because they are lucky enough to be taken over by a relative of Sheikh Mansour who is willing to finance them, same as City were in the early days of our takeover. They can try to spend, to bridge the gap to the teams who have been coining it in due to 20 odd years of Champs Lg finance.

Ah but, even though Leeds uncover 3 or 4 future stars from around the world at 10 mil each, & make some brilliant signings, at a great price, for other positions, it puts their wage bill up to 45 mil.

So they can just fuck off. Not allowed.

Whilst Utd spunk away money on Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, any one of which costs more than the whole increase Leeds, as a club, are allowed to make.

So each year, Leeds try to get that little bit closer by increasing their wage bill a little & each year Utd etc, spend even more increasing their wage bill by more than Leeds & get further away & if Leeds do get a top player, Utd etc steal him by persuading him to push for a move, so get him cheap (a bit like Bayern Munich do).

So 40 years later, Utd, with American owners fleecing the club, are still able to pay the next Sanchez 4 mil a week & Leeds, with an owner who wants to put money in, are still not able to pay the wage bill Utd are paying now.


Welcome to Financial Fair Play, a system designed to stop clubs who are not already rich, from competing with those who are.

Good post - bloody hate Leeds

 

[The Riot Club]

As we are now in no danger of falling foul of FFP, why should we take it to court to destroy it and help clubs who have had no regard for us in our difficult times. Remember which clubs agreed to the away teams getting less of gate receipts, which teams were instrumental in the premier league and the famous five letter on Arsenal headed notepaper. Take on FFP, what advantage is that to us.

The advantage to us is we are probably one of the most attractive destinations for any player these days, because of Pep and our style of play. But be ause of ffp we seem to be hamstrung on signing, say, Mbappe, so we can't dominate as much as we should given our wealth and status. It is keeping the rags able to compete despite a lack of CL football and a succession of incompetent managers.

Plus, I have no issue with seeing a good club like Leeds, Villa, Sheffield United or anyone getting very rich if it helps push the dirty rag shit further down the league and stops Liverpool and Arsenal winning as much. Other clubs deserve a shot at the big time, same as we got.

 

[BlueRain]

The advantage to us is we are probably one of the most attractive destinations for any player these days, because of Pep and our style of play. But be ause of ffp we seem to be hamstrung on signing, say, Mbappe, so we can't dominate as much as we should given our wealth and status. It is keeping the rags able to compete despite a lack of CL football and a succession of incompetent managers.

Plus, I have no issue with seeing a good club like Leeds, Villa, Sheffield United or anyone getting very rich if it helps push the dirty rag shit further down the league and stops Liverpool and Arsenal winning as much. Other clubs deserve a shot at the big time, same as we got.

I'm not sure it is protecting the rags - not long term anyway... rumour has it that Olle Gunner Wheelbarrow only has £100m to spend (plus sales maybe) to rebuild that squad which isn't a great deal of money these days - not to sort that mess out anyway so I don't think the rags finances are as rosey as some people think (especially when it comes to FFP)

FFP was obviously designed to stop City but UEFA were too slow - we "scraped" in just as the gate closed - it even hit us on the arse slightly when it slammed shut (the "pinch") but we made it and we are now one of the "big" clubs that FFP was designed to protect ;)
If the transfer rumours are to be believed then we are probably going to be spending £200m+ this window so we're ok, I have no idea on our finances in regards to FFP and what we "could" spend but I am sure we are more than alright in that regard...?

Our wages are nice and low and we spend wisely - something we should all be proud of, If i'm being totally honest I wouldn't like us to sign a load of primadona's and Instagram f***wits on mega wages anyway...

 

[nmc]

I'm not sure it is protecting the rags - not long term anyway... rumour has it that Olle Gunner Wheelbarrow only has £100m to spend (plus sales maybe) to rebuild that squad which isn't a great deal of money these days - not to sort that mess out anyway so I don't think the rags finances are as rosey as some people think (especially when it comes to FFP)

FFP was obviously designed to stop City but UEFA were too slow - we "scraped" in just as the gate closed - it even hit us on the arse slightly when it slammed shut (the "pinch") but we made it and we are now one of the "big" clubs that FFP was designed to protect ;)
If the transfer rumours are to be believed then we are probably going to be spending £200m+ this window so we're ok, I have no idea on our finances in regards to FFP and what we "could" spend but I am sure we are more than alright in that regard...?

Our wages are nice and low and we spend wisely - something we should all be proud of, If i'm being totally honest I wouldn't like us to sign a load of primadona's and Instagram f***wits on mega wages anyway...

If reports that the Rags do only have £100m to spend on a major rebuild - that may go someway to explaining why they were so keen to appoint Ole. If they do manage to shift Pogba and Lukaku - they will struggle to get what they paid for each of them in a market that is now inflated. Good luck to them buying a central midfielder and a striker in this market.

 

[bluemanchester]

The advantage to us is we are probably one of the most attractive destinations for any player these days, because of Pep and our style of play. But be ause of ffp we seem to be hamstrung on signing, say, Mbappe, so we can't dominate as much as we should given our wealth and status. It is keeping the rags able to compete despite a lack of CL football and a succession of incompetent managers.

Plus, I have no issue with seeing a good club like Leeds, Villa, Sheffield United or anyone getting very rich if it helps push the dirty rag shit further down the league and stops Liverpool and Arsenal winning as much. Other clubs deserve a shot at the big time, same as we got.

I understand where you are coming from and if you look where we have come from in the last 11 years, I believe with our owners and board we will continue to kick on in the next 11 years also. I also think after winning all 4 domestic trophies last season we are in a position of dominance, domestically. I don't think United are competing, they are taking part but so are 91 other clubs. I have no issue with you saying about other clubs getting rich either as I am a believer in promotion and relegation but the more American owners we get in the premier league we will see a call for closed leagues. But that is probably for a different thread.
We are buying exciting young talent from all around the world and they want to come to play at likkle citeh, so lets enjoy it now because we both know it it will only get better. PS Liverpool and Arsenal have not won much lately.

 

[DrBlueBob]

So basically, if you are already rich & have a huge income due to years of Champions League exposure & time spent near the top of the Premier League, generating money directly from CL tv payments but also by selling merch to the people around the world who have seen you pushed on tv every week, then you can pay Alexi Sanchez 500k pw to sit on his arse, & your wage bill is already so high, the 'extra' 500k pw, doesn't even push it up by a significant percentage.

So Utd are there, with a wage bill of over 300 mil, & along come Leeds for example, a club with great 'history' who have played in European Cup finals.

But they are struggling to finance a 30 mil wage bill.

But let's imagine it's no problem, because they are lucky enough to be taken over by a relative of Sheikh Mansour who is willing to finance them, same as City were in the early days of our takeover. They can try to spend, to bridge the gap to the teams who have been coining it in due to 20 odd years of Champs Lg finance.

Ah but, even though Leeds uncover 3 or 4 future stars from around the world at 10 mil each, & make some brilliant signings, at a great price, for other positions, it puts their wage bill up to 45 mil.

So they can just fuck off. Not allowed.

Whilst Utd spunk away money on Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, any one of which costs more than the whole increase Leeds, as a club, are allowed to make.

So each year, Leeds try to get that little bit closer by increasing their wage bill a little & each year Utd etc, spend even more increasing their wage bill by more than Leeds & get further away & if Leeds do get a top player, Utd etc steal him by persuading him to push for a move, so get him cheap (a bit like Bayern Munich do).

So 40 years later, Utd, with American owners fleecing the club, are still able to pay the next Sanchez 4 mil a week & Leeds, with an owner who wants to put money in, are still not able to pay the wage bill Utd are paying now.


Welcome to Financial Fair Play, a system designed to stop clubs who are not already rich, from competing with those who are.

Well, when you put it like that it does seem quite fair doesn't it?
On a serious note, the concept of stopping clubs overspending should be of merit. It is where outside investment is concerned that most take issue with.

 

[Canyouseethesky]

So basically, if you are already rich & have a huge income due to years of Champions League exposure & time spent near the top of the Premier League, generating money directly from CL tv payments but also by selling merch to the people around the world who have seen you pushed on tv every week, then you can pay Alexi Sanchez 500k pw to sit on his arse, & your wage bill is already so high, the 'extra' 500k pw, doesn't even push it up by a significant percentage.

So Utd are there, with a wage bill of over 300 mil, & along come Leeds for example, a club with great 'history' who have played in European Cup finals.

But they are struggling to finance a 30 mil wage bill.

But let's imagine it's no problem, because they are lucky enough to be taken over by a relative of Sheikh Mansour who is willing to finance them, same as City were in the early days of our takeover. They can try to spend, to bridge the gap to the teams who have been coining it in due to 20 odd years of Champs Lg finance.

Ah but, even though Leeds uncover 3 or 4 future stars from around the world at 10 mil each, & make some brilliant signings, at a great price, for other positions, it puts their wage bill up to 45 mil.

So they can just fuck off. Not allowed.

Whilst Utd spunk away money on Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, any one of which costs more than the whole increase Leeds, as a club, are allowed to make.

So each year, Leeds try to get that little bit closer by increasing their wage bill a little & each year Utd etc, spend even more increasing their wage bill by more than Leeds & get further away & if Leeds do get a top player, Utd etc steal him by persuading him to push for a move, so get him cheap (a bit like Bayern Munich do).

So 40 years later, Utd, with American owners fleecing the club, are still able to pay the next Sanchez 4 mil a week & Leeds, with an owner who wants to put money in, are still not able to pay the wage bill Utd are paying now.


Welcome to Financial Fair Play, a system designed to stop clubs who are not already rich, from competing with those who are.

Good post and I would agree with most of it. It's heavily stacked in favour of the already big and rich club's, that's life though, it can be shit sometimes. In all walks of life it's set up by the rich to protect the rich.

Where I disagree with you is using Utd for comparison purposes, they are consistently one of the richest club's in the world and still will be when they're struggling away looking for the next messiah to bring back the glory days. Picking the 4th or 5th best team in the championship and expecting they can over take Man Utd in a couple of years is unrealistic. No more than it's realistic to expect your local corner shop to be taking on Tesco or a start up taking on Google or Pfizer. As they grow they are swallowed up by the establishment, it's how big business works and always will.

Would FFP stop Leeds overhauling Man Utd in 3 years? 100% It would, would it stop them over 15 years, I don't see any reason why it would. There are examples of what can be achieved by working within your resources over a long period of time, Spurs being a great example that a good manager, smart spending and a long term plan can bring success. Monaco and Ajax are other fine examples of using limited resources well.

For reasons previously stated I don't have an issue with FFP preventing club's going mad and risking everything for a quick shot at success.