Hart of the Matter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 5,180
The VAR pictures are taken from tv feeds.... who provides those? Sky. Vested interest in protecting VAR perhaps?
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Var debate 2019/20
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
- Start date
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
But a foot is 12 inches so if they’re 13 inches off then it’s still an inch over your arbitrary measure and the same argument would exist.
No it wouldn't, because it would be approximately 13 inches offside not a bullshit 1cm, so tough shit, time the run better & avoid the doubt.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Pretty certain the foul by Maguire and ball in net was less than 30 seconds. So do we know what the time frame is for review?
Whatever they feel like.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
Of course the refs are going to say it got everything right,it was us,let's see whether they will think that for other teams,a couple of rag goals shouldn't have stood for fouls in the build upRef Watch on Sky with Dermot Gallacher - talking about the VAR decisions in our game and claiming that VAR is perfect. No discussion about how the operators determine when the ball is played, or where the lines are drawn. I am fairly sure that there is human input in all of this, therefore it's subjective and open to error (or worse!).
Talk about missing the fucking point!
SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 88,243
Course it would, wherever the line is, there’s an inch over it.No it wouldn't, because it would be approximately 13 inches offside not a bullshit 1cm, so tough shit, time the run better & avoid the doubt.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
Do you go to the game?I firmly believe that in last 10 years, no club in Europe had wore refereeing than Manchester City. I guess there are probably 15 penalties we don't get during the league season and even if we get few when we shouldn't, we're still at 10 penalties not given for us. There was a period 2 years ago when there was a leg breaking attack on our players per game and none was "rewarded" with red card, some weren't booked and some weren't even deemed as a foul, like that leg breaking penalty incident on Aguero in derby 2 years ago. Referee mistakes were ending our title challenges, we were going out from domestic and European cups... while in same time some of our fiercest rivals were being given everything and more from referees.
We moaned all those 10 years here, each referee was a ****, each football organization was corrupt. And that's probably right.
Now we get the technology that is proven to help any club get 5-10% better decisions on game defining moments, nothing ever made those decisions to come closer to 100% correct, City's numbers will probably be double of other clubs and what I see here is some of the loudest UEFA, FA, Rags, Liverpool's bashers going mental about it, threatening they'll quit with football, blah, blah, blah, citing entertainment, emotions etc...
I don't understand the endgame of some football fans. Is it about their club winning games, leagues and cups and playing on more fair field or is it all about them, their need for banter and shitting over referees, FA, etc.. I know for decades it's all about them when it comes to organized hooligan groups, but I thought it's different for regular fans.
cleavers
Moderator
Yes, you are missing something, that was never brought in, there was a discussion about it but it didn't happen.Am i missing something??? I thought there are no rebounds now on pens and if saved or missed the game restarts with a goalkick???
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Course it would, wherever the line is, there’s an inch over it.
The offside line, would be level with the last defender, same as at weekend.
Then you are giving the attacking players leeway to be a bit offside, so as not to disallow legitimate goals. If you push the boundaries further & you get it wrong, you are inviting adjudication & if it goes against you, it's your own fault for not being 'level' with the defender. It's not a new offside line, it's a safety net against ruining precise, clever football.
No legitimate goal would ever be disallowed, again, for offside.
uwe rosler 28
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are missing something, that was never brought in, there was a discussion about it but it didn't happen.
Yes ive just checked i thought it had been implemented but obvisly not.
The trouble with using it for offside is that the system is not fit for purpose except to show a failure to flag a clear and obvious offside. So use it for that and only that. Tell the liners not to be twitchy and that they'll be fired if they stick the flag too soon. That gives a slight advantage to the attacker. If they don't flag a clear offside, no problem just stick up the picture on the screen after the goal and disallow it. Nobody will complain. If they have to start fiddling about with the VCR, forget it, goal stands. Again nobody will complain because we can't see that well. Which brings me to the point that they seem to have overlooked or decided not to mention. To guarantee a picture of the foot in contact with the ball, you'd need to use something that doesn't exist afaik. A hi-speed camera 1000fps with an automatic zoom lens. There's presumably never been a market for them since if you want to do crash-testing or check out your latest armour-piercing shell, you just set the camera up and retire to the control booth.
Banging on about 50fps is irrelevant because the HD moving picture may well be lovely (I don't know I haven't got that TV) but your brain is joining up the digital dots just as it does with old-fashioned film. So, although I see David Silva passing the ball in one flowing seamless (brilliant) motion, the image that shows David actually first touching the ball simply may not exist. In fact, if we have a series of still images taken every 20 ms (50 fps), and the scientifically proven time of contact lasts for 8 ms (the middle of the range), there may not exist a picture of Merlin's foot in contact with the ball at any stage. God help us at 25 fps. That's why it goes blurry in my opinion. Our mind knows he kicked the ball but there's no picture of him doing it. There's a picture just before he kicked it and a picture just after, so, when the frames are not in motion, your mind just goes fuck it and smokes a joint. So whither our noble VAR operators? They obviously have to pick a still image that either shows just before or just after and, as we've seen, the time interval is more than enough for a player to be onside in one and offside in the other. And also, what applies to pictures of the ball and foot also applies to the pictures of 'offside' players. In the end, what we see is a series of photographs that our mind connects together by filling in the missing information based on learned experience. The VAR operators are just picking photographs out of a lineup. IMHO. It would be nice if they showed two separate images with timestamps but that's just unrealistic because I doubt the equipment exists.
Using it for offside and claiming it's incontrovertible is bullshit. That's the problem I have with it. I don't like being bullshitted. Trust me I'm a(n) (ex-)referee/footballer. Yeah right. They are engaged in a futile endeavour but lack the wisdom to recognize the fact. Somebody has decided that's what they're going to do and they're all onboard like good little boys because their jobs depend on it. They should backtrack, stop what they're doing because they are making fools of themselves and use VAR for clear and obvious offside fuckups that nobody will argue about. They're getting carried away and self-interest comes into it no doubt. Organizations spend fortunes on tech when something cheaper would do and don't know how to use it. How often do they stop and say hang on we/I fucked up? Let's scale it back on offside.
Banging on about 50fps is irrelevant because the HD moving picture may well be lovely (I don't know I haven't got that TV) but your brain is joining up the digital dots just as it does with old-fashioned film. So, although I see David Silva passing the ball in one flowing seamless (brilliant) motion, the image that shows David actually first touching the ball simply may not exist. In fact, if we have a series of still images taken every 20 ms (50 fps), and the scientifically proven time of contact lasts for 8 ms (the middle of the range), there may not exist a picture of Merlin's foot in contact with the ball at any stage. God help us at 25 fps. That's why it goes blurry in my opinion. Our mind knows he kicked the ball but there's no picture of him doing it. There's a picture just before he kicked it and a picture just after, so, when the frames are not in motion, your mind just goes fuck it and smokes a joint. So whither our noble VAR operators? They obviously have to pick a still image that either shows just before or just after and, as we've seen, the time interval is more than enough for a player to be onside in one and offside in the other. And also, what applies to pictures of the ball and foot also applies to the pictures of 'offside' players. In the end, what we see is a series of photographs that our mind connects together by filling in the missing information based on learned experience. The VAR operators are just picking photographs out of a lineup. IMHO. It would be nice if they showed two separate images with timestamps but that's just unrealistic because I doubt the equipment exists.
Using it for offside and claiming it's incontrovertible is bullshit. That's the problem I have with it. I don't like being bullshitted. Trust me I'm a(n) (ex-)referee/footballer. Yeah right. They are engaged in a futile endeavour but lack the wisdom to recognize the fact. Somebody has decided that's what they're going to do and they're all onboard like good little boys because their jobs depend on it. They should backtrack, stop what they're doing because they are making fools of themselves and use VAR for clear and obvious offside fuckups that nobody will argue about. They're getting carried away and self-interest comes into it no doubt. Organizations spend fortunes on tech when something cheaper would do and don't know how to use it. How often do they stop and say hang on we/I fucked up? Let's scale it back on offside.
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