Eccles Blue
Well-Known Member
That made me smile. I'm amazed he could see anything with the glare coming off those teeth!! :-)
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Bring the Noise
- Thread starter Silva's Magic Boot
- Start date
That made me smile. I'm amazed he could see anything with the glare coming off those teeth!! :-)
Great initiative shown by the 1894 Group. I am an older fan that remembers the Kippax in it's glory but I think it's wrong to hold current fans against something that was from an entirely different era and may be slightly rose tinted.
The whole fascination of the Kippax in the 70 and 80s was it's sheer size. Being able to meet up with your mates in the same spot on a vast terrace. You were out of the house for the day with a few quid in your pocket. The feeling of freedom, sometimes danger, almost lawlessness. As a young lad (and girl) if you got it you were hooked for life. It was pretty powerful stuff tbh. There was one copper on a platform keeping an eye on the lots of us ffs, and he'd get the piss taken out of him. What we have now is a million years away from those videos on the limbs thread, for better or worse.
Going back to late 70's you'd get in 20-30 minutes before the game, I remember it seemed the Kippax was waiting for the away fans to pipe up, usually about 10 minutes before kick off, and that was the signal. They'd get slapped down and not allowed to out sing the Kippax again all game. I think a lot of that was the feeling the Kippax was yours, and as they say now, you weren't going to let anyone take liberties. Into the 80s and started going away from home you expected the same. Weird now to hear so many home crowds out sung.
I agree, we definitely need a stand fans can identify with, and defend. It's a tribal thing not a background noise from a few oiks in the cheap seats. Soriano's current sanitised version of football has exactly the atmosphere you would expect. Sadly, I am not sure anyone at the top of the club has the intention to do much about that. Who's going to take the risk to the bottom line, oh and safety?
Thinking about young fans efforts now, even as a young lad I remember even on the Kippax the feeling the atmosphere was beginning to slip and wondering how it would come back so this is not entirely new. Firstly, that first song got later and closer to kick off. Next it was the songs got more muted. Over time the first song wouldn't happen until 5 minutes in, then not until we had our first attack. I remember being feeling really frustrated at that. Eventually a whole match would go by and there'd been one or two chants and general silence. The football was shite to be fair but City and football was going into a darker period. I remember thinking the old Kippax would come back if we could get a half decent team again. A young Michael Hughes was the last time I really remember the standing Kippax exercising its lungs in order to influence what was happening on the pitch. Maybe Maine Road got it's life back towards the end when the club was on life support and it was pretty much the fans doing the CPR. But seats were going in at all grounds by then anyway. It was never coming back.
No one should think singing was ever 90 minutes either, as it isn't now. There were some unforgettable nights on the Kippax, as there are at the Etihad but the atmosphere ebbs and flows with the match as English football crowds have always done. I wonder whether people remember the atmosphere rather than the songs themselves? Pep mentioned last year something about smaller away grounds where it seems like you are in the middle of a storm but when you look back at the football nothing happened. I watch a lot of footy on Spanish TV now. They always, always used to mention the English crowds raising the noise as a team gets some pressure going. I haven't heard that for a few years but they only show the bigger clubs tbh. Maybe the malaise is particularly bad at the bigger clubs?
So are we confusing singing and atmosphere? We've never had constant singing like the droning German fans do. What has definitely gone is that roar when we have teams on the rack. We can be having attack after attack, we can have a runner dribbling into the area and its sometimes silent in the ground. I have have my own rose tinted specks on but I like to think the Kippax in its heyday would definitely not let a team off the hook. Then again that might be a change in the football we play which is mesmerising at times.
Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, Not sure what to do about the lack of passion, and so many things have changed that it's almost a different sport so for me I think it's great that the younger fans make the atmosphere they want. There is no rule about what it should be. Sadly those reminiscing are now well into their 50s. It's not a good age for looking back in general ;)
Good luck all trying whatever they can. It's your club, your time.
The whole fascination of the Kippax in the 70 and 80s was it's sheer size. Being able to meet up with your mates in the same spot on a vast terrace. You were out of the house for the day with a few quid in your pocket. The feeling of freedom, sometimes danger, almost lawlessness. As a young lad (and girl) if you got it you were hooked for life. It was pretty powerful stuff tbh. There was one copper on a platform keeping an eye on the lots of us ffs, and he'd get the piss taken out of him. What we have now is a million years away from those videos on the limbs thread, for better or worse.
Going back to late 70's you'd get in 20-30 minutes before the game, I remember it seemed the Kippax was waiting for the away fans to pipe up, usually about 10 minutes before kick off, and that was the signal. They'd get slapped down and not allowed to out sing the Kippax again all game. I think a lot of that was the feeling the Kippax was yours, and as they say now, you weren't going to let anyone take liberties. Into the 80s and started going away from home you expected the same. Weird now to hear so many home crowds out sung.
I agree, we definitely need a stand fans can identify with, and defend. It's a tribal thing not a background noise from a few oiks in the cheap seats. Soriano's current sanitised version of football has exactly the atmosphere you would expect. Sadly, I am not sure anyone at the top of the club has the intention to do much about that. Who's going to take the risk to the bottom line, oh and safety?
Thinking about young fans efforts now, even as a young lad I remember even on the Kippax the feeling the atmosphere was beginning to slip and wondering how it would come back so this is not entirely new. Firstly, that first song got later and closer to kick off. Next it was the songs got more muted. Over time the first song wouldn't happen until 5 minutes in, then not until we had our first attack. I remember being feeling really frustrated at that. Eventually a whole match would go by and there'd been one or two chants and general silence. The football was shite to be fair but City and football was going into a darker period. I remember thinking the old Kippax would come back if we could get a half decent team again. A young Michael Hughes was the last time I really remember the standing Kippax exercising its lungs in order to influence what was happening on the pitch. Maybe Maine Road got it's life back towards the end when the club was on life support and it was pretty much the fans doing the CPR. But seats were going in at all grounds by then anyway. It was never coming back.
No one should think singing was ever 90 minutes either, as it isn't now. There were some unforgettable nights on the Kippax, as there are at the Etihad but the atmosphere ebbs and flows with the match as English football crowds have always done. I wonder whether people remember the atmosphere rather than the songs themselves? Pep mentioned last year something about smaller away grounds where it seems like you are in the middle of a storm but when you look back at the football nothing happened. I watch a lot of footy on Spanish TV now. They always, always used to mention the English crowds raising the noise as a team gets some pressure going. I haven't heard that for a few years but they only show the bigger clubs tbh. Maybe the malaise is particularly bad at the bigger clubs?
So are we confusing singing and atmosphere? We've never had constant singing like the droning German fans do. What has definitely gone is that roar when we have teams on the rack. We can be having attack after attack, we can have a runner dribbling into the area and its sometimes silent in the ground. I have have my own rose tinted specks on but I like to think the Kippax in its heyday would definitely not let a team off the hook. Then again that might be a change in the football we play which is mesmerising at times.
Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, Not sure what to do about the lack of passion, and so many things have changed that it's almost a different sport so for me I think it's great that the younger fans make the atmosphere they want. There is no rule about what it should be. Sadly those reminiscing are now well into their 50s. It's not a good age for looking back in general ;)
Good luck all trying whatever they can. It's your club, your time.
If the club sends out emails that is blunt and straight to the point and have a sign up of some sort without price of tickets (so non-singers can't come for cheap tickets) to see how many people would actually come. Then the club can work out easier transitions for those people and make it much more inviting. I think the singing section should also be displayed as something you want to be in and should be in if you are true fan of City (don't really mean it) similar to war where people are made to feel guilty about staying back (can be done by emails and maybe the announcer before the game etc.). Then all the singers who don't want to move will feel more obliged to move. We also need to make sure non singers feel out of place in the singing section. It might be hard now but in the Fa cup game it should be a bit easier. It needs the reputation that non singers are not welcome there.
I just combined a few things I read into the same post so it is all in one place and added a few thoughts as well.
I just combined a few things I read into the same post so it is all in one place and added a few thoughts as well.
trevorriley
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 3,124
Great initiative shown by the 1894 Group. I am an older fan that remembers the Kippax in it's glory but I think it's wrong to hold current fans against something that was from an entirely different era and may be slightly rose tinted.
The whole fascination of the Kippax in the 70 and 80s was it's sheer size. Being able to meet up with your mates in the same spot on a vast terrace. You were out of the house for the day with a few quid in your pocket. The feeling of freedom, sometimes danger, almost lawlessness. As a young lad (and girl) if you got it you were hooked for life. It was pretty powerful stuff tbh. There was one copper on a platform keeping an eye on the lots of us ffs, and he'd get the piss taken out of him. What we have now is a million years away from those videos on the limbs thread, for better or worse.
Going back to late 70's you'd get in 20-30 minutes before the game, I remember it seemed the Kippax was waiting for the away fans to pipe up, usually about 10 minutes before kick off, and that was the signal. They'd get slapped down and not allowed to out sing the Kippax again all game. I think a lot of that was the feeling the Kippax was yours, and as they say now, you weren't going to let anyone take liberties. Into the 80s and started going away from home you expected the same. Weird now to hear so many home crowds out sung.
I agree, we definitely need a stand fans can identify with, and defend. It's a tribal thing not a background noise from a few oiks in the cheap seats. Soriano's current sanitised version of football has exactly the atmosphere you would expect. Sadly, I am not sure anyone at the top of the club has the intention to do much about that. Who's going to take the risk to the bottom line, oh and safety?
Thinking about young fans efforts now, even as a young lad I remember even on the Kippax the feeling the atmosphere was beginning to slip and wondering how it would come back so this is not entirely new. Firstly, that first song got later and closer to kick off. Next it was the songs got more muted. Over time the first song wouldn't happen until 5 minutes in, then not until we had our first attack. I remember being feeling really frustrated at that. Eventually a whole match would go by and there'd been one or two chants and general silence. The football was shite to be fair but City and football was going into a darker period. I remember thinking the old Kippax would come back if we could get a half decent team again. A young Michael Hughes was the last time I really remember the standing Kippax exercising its lungs in order to influence what was happening on the pitch. Maybe Maine Road got it's life back towards the end when the club was on life support and it was pretty much the fans doing the CPR. But seats were going in at all grounds by then anyway. It was never coming back.
No one should think singing was ever 90 minutes either, as it isn't now. There were some unforgettable nights on the Kippax, as there are at the Etihad but the atmosphere ebbs and flows with the match as English football crowds have always done. I wonder whether people remember the atmosphere rather than the songs themselves? Pep mentioned last year something about smaller away grounds where it seems like you are in the middle of a storm but when you look back at the football nothing happened. I watch a lot of footy on Spanish TV now. They always, always used to mention the English crowds raising the noise as a team gets some pressure going. I haven't heard that for a few years but they only show the bigger clubs tbh. Maybe the malaise is particularly bad at the bigger clubs?
So are we confusing singing and atmosphere? We've never had constant singing like the droning German fans do. What has definitely gone is that roar when we have teams on the rack. We can be having attack after attack, we can have a runner dribbling into the area and its sometimes silent in the ground. I have have my own rose tinted specks on but I like to think the Kippax in its heyday would definitely not let a team off the hook. Then again that might be a change in the football we play which is mesmerising at times.
Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, Not sure what to do about the lack of passion, and so many things have changed that it's almost a different sport so for me I think it's great that the younger fans make the atmosphere they want. There is no rule about what it should be. Sadly those reminiscing are now well into their 50s. It's not a good age for looking back in general ;)
Good luck all trying whatever they can. It's your club, your time.
Nice one, that wasn't rambling that's the truth. You and I have the same memories about the kippax whereas some people like to romance the truth a little. I think if a young fan that never tended a game at main road was to speak to some guys on BM they would get the impression that we won 3 nil most games with flowing football and every game was deafening with singing. You and me alike know that was far from the case.
And yes we are confusing the issue, but also going round in circles to.
You would probably agree that rather than complain about how it is at the Etihad, we have to work round what we have and say "this is how we are going to do it". We cant move the goalposts at Etihad ( no punt tended ) so we have to move with the times and be adamant that even if the beer is flat, even if we don't like drums, even if season cards went up 12% we are still going to bloody sing !!
And that's what I miss, kippax was always full when the teams came out, every city fan wanted to roar the team on as they came on the pitch like gladiators. Now 40% of fans are still on the concourse. Ok blame the fact we cant have a beer in the stands but do we go to football to support the blues or drink ?
trevorriley
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 3,124
If the club sends out emails that is blunt and straight to the point and have a sign up of some sort without price of tickets (so non-singers can't come for cheap tickets) to see how many people would actually come. Then the club can work out easier transitions for those people and make it much more inviting. I think the singing section should also be displayed as something you want to be in and should be in if you are true fan of City (don't really mean it) similar to war where people are made to feel guilty about staying back (can be done by emails and maybe the announcer before the game etc.). Then all the singers who don't want to move will feel more obliged to move. We also need to make sure non singers feel out of place in the singing section. It might be hard now but in the Fa cup game it should be a bit easier. It needs the reputation that non singers are not welcome there.
I just combined a few things I read into the same post so it is all in one place and added a few thoughts as well.
The club already does quite a lot on those lines, also they are limited to a certain extent. When you purchase on line a ticket for 115 area it pops up this is a singing section, expect noise ( hopefully !! ). There are also other ways the club let fans know. So how do day trippers come in ? Well some fans ignore it, others buy from an agent. The answer is only the club or 1894 should sell tickets for 115 that way we can dictate more.
Agreed, make non singers realise it is not for them then they would be likely to move. The block holds 750, if there was 600 singers in there I bet none singers would feel out of place and want to move. Not sure what the split is of singers there are in 115 but it is not 600 fans that sing. Therefore as we are, the non singers take over and dilute the block.
If all of 115 was held by season card holders, nothing would be on open sale, problem is it isn't, cant really blame the club for that. We are going to work with the club on clearing out non singers and bringing in the hard care city fans. But that wont work unless we have a list of fans willing to move in first.. We need a list.
Moving on to the block that we may get for port vale in the fa cup, if we can get the right fans to respond and take over the away end in SS1, this will then create us a list of fans that would mover in to 115. Club can do a bit more on advertising it, but the fans need to do their bit to. Five years ago I moved away from my mates and in to a new end at 115, best thing I ever did. Some great lads in there and it is far better going to watch a game with like minded fans than pulling your hair out stood with fans with hands in pockets.
Nice one, that wasn't rambling that's the truth. You and I have the same memories about the kippax whereas some people like to romance the truth a little. I think if a young fan that never tended a game at main road was to speak to some guys on BM they would get the impression that we won 3 nil most games with flowing football and every game was deafening with singing. You and me alike know that was far from the case.
And yes we are confusing the issue, but also going round in circles to.
You would probably agree that rather than complain about how it is at the Etihad, we have to work round what we have and say "this is how we are going to do it". We cant move the goalposts at Etihad ( no punt tended ) so we have to move with the times and be adamant that even if the beer is flat, even if we don't like drums, even if season cards went up 12% we are still going to bloody sing !!
And that's what I miss, kippax was always full when the teams came out, every city fan wanted to roar the team on as they came on the pitch like gladiators. Now 40% of fans are still on the concourse. Ok blame the fact we cant have a beer in the stands but do we go to football to support the blues or drink ?
Cheers Blue
I agree it's going round in circles. What's weird is anyone who has been around the club over the last 30,40, 50 years will know the depth of passion our fans have for our club. I know all fans are passionate about their clubs, whatever the level they play at, but I am convinced the club is entirely indebted to the sheer bloody mindedness of the fans that kept the club a viable proposition through those mad years. We, out of any fans, have the T-shirt. It's madness that Pep, Sane, et all could leave and have no sense of that intense passion from the atmosphere they play in most of the time. Isn't that seen when they slope off at the end of the game, unless they are told otherwise?
So you've got some fans recognise their is a lack of atmosphere, want to show their passion, feel more singing is the best way to go about that. Yet most are at best apathetic, some new, and some don't want a "manufactured" atmosphere. That's why the 1894 has to forge the way forward. The suits don't have a scooby about what it's like to be so attached to a club. It'll take time but it's the only way the club can see what is needed. Eventually a home end we can hope.
And another thing, I would absolutely love it if you lads can get You are my City, My only City back on the song book. Absolute classic City, from the pure manc Make me appy when skies are grey, it doesn't mention rags, scousers, swearing, or any doubtful lanky past strikers. Just City. It's as City as Hark now hear which gets regular run out.
And with the na na na na ooh/clap bit it's one of those songs that can repeat and really get going like the Oh when the Spurs and Allez type songs. Used to be sung a lot on the Kippax. Loved when it started quieter then built louder. No doubting passion when that was belted out.
You'll never know just,
How much I love you,
So please don't take my City away.
Shivers
trevorriley
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 3,124
Cheers Blue
I agree it's going round in circles. What's weird is anyone who has been around the club over the last 30,40, 50 years will know the depth of passion our fans have for our club. I know all fans are passionate about their clubs, whatever the level they play at, but I am convinced the club is entirely indebted to the sheer bloody mindedness of the fans that kept the club a viable proposition through those mad years. We, out of any fans, have the T-shirt. It's madness that Pep, Sane, et all could leave and have no sense of that intense passion from the atmosphere they play in most of the time. Isn't that seen when they slope off at the end of the game, unless they are told otherwise?
So you've got some fans recognise their is a lack of atmosphere, want to show their passion, feel more singing is the best way to go about that. Yet most are at best apathetic, some new, and some don't want a "manufactured" atmosphere. That's why the 1894 has to forge the way forward. The suits don't have a scooby about what it's like to be so attached to a club. It'll take time but it's the only way the club can see what is needed. Eventually a home end we can hope.
And another thing, I would absolutely love it if you lads can get You are my City, My only City back on the song book. Absolute classic City, from the pure manc Make me appy when skies are grey, it doesn't mention rags, scousers, swearing, or any doubtful lanky past strikers. Just City. It's as City as Hark now hear which gets regular run out.
And with the na na na na ooh/clap bit it's one of those songs that can repeat and really get going like the Oh when the Spurs and Allez type songs. Used to be sung a lot on the Kippax. Loved when it started quieter then built louder. No doubting passion when that was belted out.
You'll never know just,
How much I love you,
So please don't take my City away.
Shivers
We share exactly the same passion buddy and agree those songs are the best, now and again the "you are my city" gets a blast but not at every game, it should be though. Some songs like that are perfect for carrying on, same as the songs with a good clap beat. Songs now get sung for one round then 15 seconds later somebody belts out another song, and another and another. Fans get confused and give up singing. New songs come out all the time, don't get me wrong some are brilliant. But as I say all the time "we have plenty of songs just not enough singing them". There are some good new songs, but to many and the fans don't know the words or get the beat. When the day does come that we are in more of a dedicated singing area songs will be controlled a little more so we can go on longer & louder. At times as it is we have three songs at once. The good thing about English fans and what we all like is tat our songs relate to the game minute by minute, a mix of spontaneous and routine songs should work.
Don't get me on to the players and sloping off the pitch at full time not even acknowledging the away fans ! It irritates the hell out of me when players just disappear down the tunnel and pep is terrible for it when he should lead by example. I have been to away games where pep has come over to us or tried to encourage players, but it is few and far between. I understand if he has had an intense 90 mins, but those travelling fans have been there since the beginning of this journey so take time to share feelings and create a bond. I know a lot of staff at the club feel the players should come over more. At burnley last night the players did come over, but was it because they passed our away end anyhow to get to the tunnel. I do see away teams at Etihad making far more effort than our team does. I know the word was passed to the team about a recent champions league game where players showed no effort, I think it actually got over to them.
We keep trying and working at the atmosphere, it will come slowly, it didn't happen abroad over night. Meanwhile "please don't take my city away" nah nah nah nah na blues !
The club already does quite a lot on those lines, also they are limited to a certain extent. When you purchase on line a ticket for 115 area it pops up this is a singing section, expect noise ( hopefully !! ). There are also other ways the club let fans know. So how do day trippers come in ? Well some fans ignore it, others buy from an agent. The answer is only the club or 1894 should sell tickets for 115 that way we can dictate more.
Agreed, make non singers realise it is not for them then they would be likely to move. The block holds 750, if there was 600 singers in there I bet none singers would feel out of place and want to move. Not sure what the split is of singers there are in 115 but it is not 600 fans that sing. Therefore as we are, the non singers take over and dilute the block.
If all of 115 was held by season card holders, nothing would be on open sale, problem is it isn't, cant really blame the club for that. We are going to work with the club on clearing out non singers and bringing in the hard care city fans. But that wont work unless we have a list of fans willing to move in first.. We need a list.
Moving on to the block that we may get for port vale in the fa cup, if we can get the right fans to respond and take over the away end in SS1, this will then create us a list of fans that would mover in to 115. Club can do a bit more on advertising it, but the fans need to do their bit to. Five years ago I moved away from my mates and in to a new end at 115, best thing I ever did. Some great lads in there and it is far better going to watch a game with like minded fans than pulling your hair out stood with fans with hands in pockets.
It should pop up....
This is a singing section only. If you aren’t prepared to sing, don’t bother buying ticket in 115. Alert!
Saying that, there are a lot of snowflakes out there, so they might get offended.
Please sing if you want to buy a seat in block 115.
Never understood why no one brings their pints to the stands. Stewards can stop 1 of us but not 1000 it’s the same with persistent standing, eventually no one cares, strength in numbers. Viva la revolution!Nice one, that wasn't rambling that's the truth. You and I have the same memories about the kippax whereas some people like to romance the truth a little. I think if a young fan that never tended a game at main road was to speak to some guys on BM they would get the impression that we won 3 nil most games with flowing football and every game was deafening with singing. You and me alike know that was far from the case.
And yes we are confusing the issue, but also going round in circles to.
You would probably agree that rather than complain about how it is at the Etihad, we have to work round what we have and say "this is how we are going to do it". We cant move the goalposts at Etihad ( no punt tended ) so we have to move with the times and be adamant that even if the beer is flat, even if we don't like drums, even if season cards went up 12% we are still going to bloody sing !!
And that's what I miss, kippax was always full when the teams came out, every city fan wanted to roar the team on as they came on the pitch like gladiators. Now 40% of fans are still on the concourse. Ok blame the fact we cant have a beer in the stands but do we go to football to support the blues or drink ?
The Rags are playing well against Spurs, not sure if that is the reason, but their new singing section in the Stretford End seems to be doing the trick. They’ve not stopped singling for most of the game, getting some new chants going as well. That’s the end of the praise.