Var debate 2019/20

[MillionMilesAway]

Flags stay down in close calls where Var had been used for years! Seems bent Riley does as he is told.

The only reference in the VAR protocols in the IFAB laws doc I have a copy of is

Delaying the flag/whistle for an offence is only permissible in a very clear attacking situation when a player is about to score a goal or has a clear run into/towards the opponents’ penalty area

There may be another VAR doc somewhere which overrides it, but I guess there could be variance in what is a 'very clear attacking situation'.

On Tuesday, Moss waved the offside flag down once because Burnley had got the ball back. That seemed somewhat at odds with how things have been done so far.

 

[kaz7]

Oh I agree, the Salah goal 'Var' was preposterously unconvincing.

I was answering the suggestion made in this post:
"Is it really the case that VAR isn't available at either Anfield or Old Trafford? I know I read somewhere something about neither having a screen but surely that cant be the reason why it's not being used!?
It is a genuine question by the way, however absurd it sounds."

The thing is how do we know if it being used if we never see the var checks and they refuse to prove it even for such a high profile game,you don't have to be a believer in corruption to ask this question,what is there to hide,the refs put their finger to their ear,we don't know if they are having a conversation with var ref,who is making the decisions really? why won't they be mic'd up,i argued for months for var,it was suposed to get bad decisions right and level the playing field instead it is being used to twist things in certain teams favour,every time swarsbrick and riley open their mouths they dig themselves deeper as they are bold faced lying,rodders not given a pen because he dived,he called a player who didn't dive a diver,he would never call the twice booked mane or james a diver,we were the lab rats from the beginning,they spent several mins ruling out goals to shoe off the tech then relaxed it once the damage was done,don't even get me started on why they won't let the ref use the monitor,it works in the cl at half the time of an indepth var review

I'm in a bad mood now

 

[homerdog]

This sums up what's wrong with VAR

Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder talking to BBC Sport: "I'm involved now in a different sport, it's a new game to where I started as a 16-year-old. It's a different game. It's a completely different game and I've got to get my head around that.

"We were told at the start of the season that the linesman would keep his flag down, but he didn't. The referee was about to blow his whistle but he didn't. You can criticise my players for stopping, but even the goalscorer didn't look too interested. It's disappointing. It sucked the life out of the whole stadium. We're on the end of a poor one. The game has changed and it's quite sad.

"The players are disappointed. You're talking about a manager learning a new game but the players have to learn on the job too. It seems to be all over the place at the moment.

"It just doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to be involved in. It doesn't feel good when you score a goal. I can handle it if people make a mistake, we talk about it all evening out, but it's just taken a completely different feel.

"We'll get told it's new, we're all learning about it. I'm not sure I want to learn about it, I'm a bit fed up of it. It's a mistake by the linesman, why didn't he just keep his flag down? Five minutes later it happened twice and the referee blew up twice. What's the difference? Where's the consistency we're all after."

 

[blueinsa]

This sums up what's wrong with VAR

Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder talking to BBC Sport: "I'm involved now in a different sport, it's a new game to where I started as a 16-year-old. It's a different game. It's a completely different game and I've got to get my head around that.

"We were told at the start of the season that the linesman would keep his flag down, but he didn't. The referee was about to blow his whistle but he didn't. You can criticise my players for stopping, but even the goalscorer didn't look too interested. It's disappointing. It sucked the life out of the whole stadium. We're on the end of a poor one. The game has changed and it's quite sad.

"The players are disappointed. You're talking about a manager learning a new game but the players have to learn on the job too. It seems to be all over the place at the moment.

"It just doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to be involved in. It doesn't feel good when you score a goal. I can handle it if people make a mistake, we talk about it all evening out, but it's just taken a completely different feel.

"We'll get told it's new, we're all learning about it. I'm not sure I want to learn about it, I'm a bit fed up of it. It's a mistake by the linesman, why didn't he just keep his flag down? Five minutes later it happened twice and the referee blew up twice. What's the difference? Where's the consistency we're all after."

He is spot on and talks for many of us.

 

[squirtyflower]

This sums up what's wrong with VAR

Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder talking to BBC Sport: "I'm involved now in a different sport, it's a new game to where I started as a 16-year-old. It's a different game. It's a completely different game and I've got to get my head around that.

"We were told at the start of the season that the linesman would keep his flag down, but he didn't. The referee was about to blow his whistle but he didn't. You can criticise my players for stopping, but even the goalscorer didn't look too interested. It's disappointing. It sucked the life out of the whole stadium. We're on the end of a poor one. The game has changed and it's quite sad.

"The players are disappointed. You're talking about a manager learning a new game but the players have to learn on the job too. It seems to be all over the place at the moment.

"It just doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to be involved in. It doesn't feel good when you score a goal. I can handle it if people make a mistake, we talk about it all evening out, but it's just taken a completely different feel.

"We'll get told it's new, we're all learning about it. I'm not sure I want to learn about it, I'm a bit fed up of it. It's a mistake by the linesman, why didn't he just keep his flag down? Five minutes later it happened twice and the referee blew up twice. What's the difference? Where's the consistency we're all after."

@BlueHammer85
This is why VAR and bent reffing is shit.
People who have been in the game, and going to the game, for donkeys years are feeling totally disenfranchised with what is happening before their very eyes.
And your smug ‘I told you so’ jars completely with those who see and feel the way things are being criminalised to steal money from the game.
You pointed out how VAR was right on this particular incident, if Chris Wilder was on here he’d call you much more than a WUM.

 

[flook]

The're was a sequence of errors with the second newcastle goal. Obviously the linesman shouldn't have raised his flag, secondly the referee should have blown up once the flag was raised (though I do have some sympathy with him here because he's wrong whatever he does after the first mistake), and thirdly the players shouldn't have reacted to the flag because the ref didn't blow up.

VAR decision to allow the goal was correct because the player was onside and the ref didn't blow the whistle

The upshot is that a linesman made an error in calling the offside, but his position is awkward too, does his duty still include calling offside? Why? when he's told to keep the flag down in "certain" circumstances. This just causes more confusion.

Either place offside calls back with the linesman at all times and accept there will be errors like yesterday, with VAR only reviewing if a goal is scored, or take the offside responsibility away and accept that the game has changed because advantages will be gained from offside situations that don't lead to a goal in the same passage of play.

The first option is obviously the correct one.......

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

The're was a sequence of errors with the second newcastle goal. Obviously the linesman shouldn't have raised his flag, secondly the referee should have blown up once the flag was raised (though I do have some sympathy with him here because he's wrong whatever he does after the first mistake), and thirdly the players shouldn't have reacted to the flag because the ref didn't blow up.

VAR decision to allow the goal was correct because the player was onside and the ref didn't blow the whistle

The upshot is that a linesman made an error in calling the offside, but his position is awkward too, does his duty still include calling offside? Why? when he's told to keep the flag down in "certain" circumstances. This just causes more confusion.

Either place offside calls back with the linesman at all times and accept there will be errors like yesterday, with VAR only reviewing if a goal is scored, or take the offside responsibility away and accept that the game has changed because advantages will be gained from offside situations that don't lead to a goal in the same passage of play.

The first option is obviously the correct one.......

Problem is there is little or no punishment either. Lino and refs will be back making mistakes next week or the week after.

 

[flook]

Problem is there is little or no punishment either. Lino and refs will be back making mistakes next week or the week after.

Correct, nothing changes without accountability, that's the biggest issue at the moment, VAR pales into insignificance next to that

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The're was a sequence of errors with the second newcastle goal. Obviously the linesman shouldn't have raised his flag, secondly the referee should have blown up once the flag was raised (though I do have some sympathy with him here because he's wrong whatever he does after the first mistake), and thirdly the players shouldn't have reacted to the flag because the ref didn't blow up.

VAR decision to allow the goal was correct because the player was onside and the ref didn't blow the whistle

The upshot is that a linesman made an error in calling the offside, but his position is awkward too, does his duty still include calling offside? Why? when he's told to keep the flag down in "certain" circumstances. This just causes more confusion.

Either place offside calls back with the linesman at all times and accept there will be errors like yesterday, with VAR only reviewing if a goal is scored, or take the offside responsibility away and accept that the game has changed because advantages will be gained from offside situations that don't lead to a goal in the same passage of play.

The first option is obviously the correct one.......

While strange, the linesman put his flag up. He misread things, but just as in any season previously, play does not stop when the flag goes up. Never has. It isn't common for the ref to overrule, but sometimes they've seen something the linesman hasn't.

The IFAB regs in the Laws of the Game may have some PL tweak somewhere else, but (as far as I can tell) say flagging should only be delayed for "very clear goalscoring opportunity". I don't think 40 yards out with defenders in the way would be one, so if the linesman thought it was offside, he should and did put the flag up.

If the players had tried to defend it, it might not have mattered. What the keeper was doing is anybody's guess.

 

[Gray]

Problem is there is little or no punishment either. Lino and refs will be back making mistakes next week or the week after.

You are correct, VAR will improve nothing whilst the same incompetent officials are refereeing matches both on the field of play and at Stockley Park. For years football fans have been asking for better officials as the game got quicker and passed most of them by. If they insist on keeping VAR then the offside situation needs a radical overhaul and we must have completely independent reviewers in the VAR room. At this moment in time VAR is killing the game and definitely favouring certain teams.