Change VAR or.................

@hgblue I respect your opinion although I don’t necessarily agree with it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It was a long, long time before I accepted that the game is corrupt and even now there are times when I doubt myself and then something else happens to make me wonder again.
I don’t want it to be corrupt obviously because I am old fashioned enough to think there are still some people who know right from wrong in the hierarchy of both football & government (another thread I know) and will stand up for their beliefs but I’m in the minority! :-)
 
Yep. Seriously considering binning my season card next time. Just not enjoying going because the joy and spontaneity of the game has gone.

I decided vs Sheff U to stop being so miserable so thought fuck it, just try to enjoy the game. I joined in with songs again and celebrated joyously when Foden scored... That lasted, what was it, 12 minutes?

I also didn't bother going yesterday.
tried doing the same thing but it doesn't work...not paying for this bollocks next season.....
 
You don't draw there line, if it's not obvious he's onside
The rules used to state that a player was not in an off side position if level with the second last opponent or last two opponents. Is it still the case that level is not off side? If it looks level by eye then that should be accurate enough. It seems silly to draw lines and measure things because it will never be level. Nothing is exactly level if measured accurately enough.

Why does VAR need to check all goals anyway? It would be better if VAR only intervened immediately for clear errors. If a goal is scored the game should proceed as normal and kick off again. If VAR sees an error later then tough.
 
If you can't see it wtihout drawing those stupid lines then, to me, it's not obvious. But also the Offside Law itself needs a long, hard look. By tinkering with it, they've turned it into a complete nonsense. They need to go back to first principles and revisit the whole thing.

Take our first game this season at West Ham. There was the farce of Sterling's armpit. Was that "gaining an unfair advantage"? No it wasn't. Then there was the incident where he was deemed to be just onside then crossed for Jesus to score. Throughout that phase of play, Jesus was stood well in an offside position, in front of the West Ham defence. Yet, despite not moving, he was deemed to be onside when the ball was played to him. Was that "gaining an unfair advantage"? Yes it was but the law doesn't see it that way. Similarly, there was an offside call when David Silva was stood in an offside position as the ball was played but was moving back and picked up the ball with 3 West Ham defenders behind him. Was that "gaining an unfair advantage"? I'd argue it wasn't but under the letter of the law it was offside.

And Harwood-Bellis's goal yesterday was another case in point. That shot from Stones was going in whether he touches it or not and the deflection it took from H-B made absolutely no difference to the outcome. Yet it might have been disallowed if the last Port Vale defender had been a foot further forward. If he's been offside and deflected it past the last defender or the keeper on the line, then fair enough. But that wasn't the case so in my opinion we need to start thinking about subjectivity when we think about offside.

Only really read this post int he thread and I think your points about the offside law are well made. You'll get why I am very fond of going back to first principles on things like this. My perspective starts with the idea that the offside law was introduced to stop goal hanging, which of course is a way of gaining an unfair advantage. These hairline offsides are not what the law was introduced to prevent and, as something of a traditionalist of these matters, I think the law and its interpretation should still reflect first principles.

Also, professional sport is ultimately meant to be entertaining and goals are a major part of the entertainment value of football so they should only be disallowed when they absolutely have to be.

On the entertainment front, VAR is a #%&*ing killer. I just sat in my seat for the first three goals City scored yesterday, waiting to see if or what VAR would do. I have never been in favour of VAR and hate it with a passion. Waiting for decisions is not part of the football I want to watch and have watched for 50 years.
 
Sorry mate, the conspiracy stuff leaves me cold. I understand many don’t like VAR, and I also can appreciate why this is, but the fact is that VAR makes corruption/cheating by officials far more difficult. Pre VAR an official could raise his flag and a perfectly good goal could be chalked off and within 10 seconds everyone in the stadium would know the official had made a mistake but there was bugger all that could be done about it. Also penalty decisions and red cards. Now we have a safety net and I like VAR for this reason. There needs to be more work done to improve the experience for match going fans, but I’m sure that will come. I get that mine is a minority opinion, but I’m going to voice it anyway to give this thread some balance.
I'm with you on the conspiracy, although this season has made me doubt that more than ever, but still it's not about us being fucked over, it's about everyone being fucked over. The game's being fucked over!

I hate it even when we get VAR decisions in our favour.

My main gripe, as a match-going supporter, is basically the same as it's been for a few years , with the TV audience/commentators knowing what's happened within seconds whether a decision is "obviously" wrong. This is because we still don't get replays of goals etc on the screens in the ground, even though we certainly have the technology. They are prevented from showing it to the paying customers live, because apparently, they don't want to incite the crowds. Well, now we have decisions actually being made using that technology and we still are prevented from seeing it!? Everyone else around the world is seeing replays but not the people actually at the game including the fucking referee!

Trust our FA to turn a decent idea to shit.
 
Some simple tweaks to VAr:
1. Have the ref and stockly park miked and videoed.
To ensure impartiality.

2. Enforce all PL grounds to have VAR screens.
To ensure impartiality

3. Allow retrospective use of matches video to rescind/add yellows/reds after a match irrespective of ref’s match report.
To ensure the rules of the game are adhered to and to help impartiality.

4. Compile and publish list of any ‘missed’ incidents per game - offsides, fouls, obstructions etc
To help impartiality and clamp down on cheating

harder tweaks to VAR:
1. Better define ‘clear and obvious’ for use of VAR.
Offsides - as pointed out by many. If it’s only offside by the width of pixels it’s not ‘clear and obvious’ offside.

2. Any incident notified to ref by team, to be reviewed - similar to cricket reviews.
No mate , just scrap it .
 
I'm with you on the conspiracy, although this season has made me doubt that more than ever, but still it's not about us being fucked over, it's about everyone being fucked over. The game's being fucked over!

I hate it even when we get VAR decisions in our favour.

My main gripe, as a match-going supporter, is basically the same as it's been for a few years , with the TV audience/commentators knowing what's happened within seconds whether a decision is "obviously" wrong. This is because we still don't get replays of goals etc on the screens in the ground, even though we certainly have the technology. They are prevented from showing it to the paying customers live, because apparently, they don't want to incite the crowds. Well, now we have decisions actually being made using that technology and we still are prevented from seeing it!? Everyone else around the world is seeing replays but not the people actually at the game including the fucking referee!

Trust our FA to turn a decent idea to shit.
I agree with all of that.
 
@hgblue I respect your opinion although I don’t necessarily agree with it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It was a long, long time before I accepted that the game is corrupt and even now there are times when I doubt myself and then something else happens to make me wonder again.
I don’t want it to be corrupt obviously because I am old fashioned enough to think there are still some people who know right from wrong in the hierarchy of both football & government (another thread I know) and will stand up for their beliefs but I’m in the minority! :-)
With regards to corruption. Genuine question. Could anyone point me in the direction of a VAR decision that’s gone against us that you believe to be corrupt?
 
With regards to corruption. Genuine question. Could anyone point me in the direction of a VAR decision that’s gone against us that you believe to be corrupt?
You might want to start with the Spurs game and work your forward from there.
 

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