Var debate 2019/20

[Bluekiwi]

There is only one change needed to VAR - the on field referee calls for a review because he is unsure of an incident.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

You have added the middle but yourself to try and change the actual law. I already included the wording which categorically says it's not a penalty.

I'll ask you do you think the penalty against Micah Richards was fair?

I added the line for clarification, all I've done is put the new laws in the order which makes them more logical and easier to understand, taken from uefa website...

• Deliberate handball remains an offence

• The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
• the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

• The following will not usually be a free kick, unless they are one of the above situations:
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which is close to their body and has not made their body unnaturally bigger
•if a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body (but not extended to make the body bigger)
•If the goalkeeper attempts to ‘clear’ (release into play) a throw-in or deliberate kick from a team-mate but the ‘clearance’ fails, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball

Explanation
Greater clarity is needed for handball, especially on those occasions when ‘nondeliberate’ handball is an offence. The re-wording follows a number of principles:
• football does not accept a goal being scored by a hand/arm (even if accidental)
• football expects a player to be penalised for handball if they gain possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity
•it is natural for a player to put their arm between their body and the ground for support when falling.
• having the hand/arm above shoulder height is rarely a ‘natural’ position and a player is ‘taking a risk’ by having the hand/arm in that position, including when sliding
•if the ball comes off the player’s body, or off another player (of either team) who is close by, onto the hands/arms it is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball
• When the GK clearly kicks or tries to kick the ball into play, this shows no intention to handle the ball so, if the ‘clearance’ attempt is unsuccessful, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball without committing an offence

No added line and my point still stands (I've even added their explanation which explicitly uses this as an example for why there was a need for the rule change)

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Refereeing/02/60/67/07/2606707_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Richards example isn't relevant due to the new law changes but I'll ask you "is the only difference between the penalty you conceded today and the one which we had overruled today, that the ball came of a players body part before hitting the defender's outstretched arm?"
....because if that's the case, the new laws specifically states that the "outstretching of the arm" supersedes the "coming off your own body part"

You say you're a ref?

PS - just re-read your original post and highlighted the VERY IMPORTANT point that you seem to have misunderstood

 

[BobbyBoy]

Explanation
Greater clarity is needed for handball, especially on those occasions when ‘nondeliberate’ handball is an offence. The re-wording follows a number of principles:

•if the ball comes off the player’s body, or off another player (of either team) who is close by, onto the hands/arms it is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Refereeing/02/60/67/07/2606707_DOWNLOAD.pdf

You say you're a ref?

PS - just re-read your original post and highlighted the VERY IMPORTANT point that you seem to have misunderstood

Thanks for That, with your attempt to jumble up the order and add confusion you have inadvertently provided clarity. The words "often impossible" are key, it clearly states the reasons the changes were made was because players were being punished (like Micah Richards) for situations it was impossible for them to avoid.

 

[Allnightlong]

Did we not get a penalty a few weeks ago when the defender slid across like yesterday, but with his hands by his sides and the reason it wasnt given was that his hands were in a natural position. two extremes of hand positions and the the same result....no penalty.
Its like a penalty will never be given when a player slides to cut out a cross as his hands can be in any position and deemed natural.

 

[quiet_riot]

I think you're misinterpreting the new laws to be honest....

The following will not usually be a free kick, unless they are one of the above situations:
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which is close to their body and has not made their body unnaturally bigger
•if a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body (but not extended to make the body bigger)

So not a free kick for any of those cases UNLESS one of these situations apply....

The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
• the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

So not a penalty if it hits your arm AFTER it's come of your own body part UNLESS you've made your body unnaturally bigger. So, sliding to block a cross with your arms outstretched and the ball hits your arm means it's a pen NO MATTER IF IT'S ACCIDENTAL OR IF IT COMES OFF YOUR HEAD/BODY/FOOT.

You're welcome ;)

You cannot slide to block a cross without using your arms for balance. That doesn't make your body "unnaturally bigger"

 

[stonerblue]

I actually think this handball law is one of the few that makes sense. An attacker can't benefit from using his hand, it's perfectly obvious, no one should argue with that.

The media and some players are the ones making it complicated. The fact VAR found 2 miniscule ones in the first 2 weeks of the season hasn't helped what is a perfectly reasonable law.

But a defender can?

 

[Dirty Harry]

The law was change this season to make it fairer. The decision you referred to was the perfect example of the old law not being for for purpose.

It was Phil Dowd (iirc) who came out and said if he'd have seen/known it hit Micah's foot/leg before deflecting up onto his arm, then he wouldn't have awarded a penalty, whether you choose to believe that after the event, because the game has gone, is another matter entirely.

 

[blueinsa]

Let's see if that happens first.

With respect we have had this argument since the first day if the season and it's been shown time and time again that VAR is in no way consistent and that certain sides get decisions nobody else would or does.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Thanks for That, with your attempt to jumble up the order and add confusion you have inadvertently provided clarity. The words "often impossible" are key, it clearly states the reasons the changes were made was because players were being punished (like Micah Richards) for situations it was impossible for them to avoid.

My last post wasn't jumbled it was word-for-word what the new laws state and written in the order that they appear on the EUFA website, it was my original post which I rearranged as I was attempting to make it easier for others to comprehend, but whatever, possibly the only line from those new laws that we MIGHT agree on is "Explanation - Greater clarity is needed for handball, especially on those occasions when ‘nondeliberate’ handball is an offence." because it appears that there are still quite a few grey areas despite these supposed new "clarifications", but I guess that was their intention.

Have a good day and thanks for taking the time to answer my question about "your" handball.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

You cannot slide to block a cross without using your arms for balance. That doesn't make your body "unnaturally bigger"

Vertonghen yesterday vs Spurs?