The Boxing thread

I've said as much about Wilder's resume here before but someone's done a full "audit" in a 5 part series just for those who didn't have the patience to go back and check how his career was really built. Deserves some credit whoever made this, very well put together. Have a listen out for Teddy Atlas in commentary, made me laugh how well he called it.

Part 1:

You can find the other parts on their channel.
 
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I've said as much about Wilder's resume here before but someone's done a full "audit" in a 5 part series just for those who didn't have the patience to go back and check how his career was really built. Deserves some credit whoever made this, very well put together. Have a listen out for Teddy Atlas in commentary, made me laugh how well he called it.

Part 1:

You can find the other parts on their channel.


A boxer starting off being given a load of easy fights to gain experience is the norm. He was a basketball player who didn't put on gloves until his 20s, not like those boxing since 6 or 7 years old, so he will never be the most highly skilled boxer but did well to get as far as he has from his starting position.
 
A boxer starting off being given a load of easy fights to gain experience is the norm. He was a basketball player who didn't put on gloves until his 20s, not like those boxing since 6 or 7 years old, so he will never be the most highly skilled boxer but did well to get as far as he has from his starting position.
I know all about Wilder's story. You're half right there, he was exactly 20 years old(it was 2005) and it was football, basketball, then boxing. He was not much older than AJ(18), Wilder also competed in the Olympics(won bronze) himself. The difference is AJ fell in love with the sport and Wilder just saw it as a way to make money and fame. He doesn't respect the sport, former champions or the sweet science. He's basically said he doesn't need skill because he has the equalizer in his right hand. The fact that he didn't watch boxing before putting on gloves is completely forgivable but after 10+ years in the sport he still doesn't respect the sport, that much is obvious. That is the reason he didn't progress like others have who took up boxing late themselves(along with Shelley Finkel's cherry picking masterplan).

I agree it's not unheard of to have some low risk fights early on in a fighters career, it's forgivable for the first few fights(although he was fighting some very poor opposition, embarrassing to watch really). If you have watched the video though, this is a step further than that. Many of these guys weren't even journey men, they served no purpose other than to pad his record(KO stats). It's also not like he was upping the levels after the first few fights were out of the way, raising his experience as you suggest. This continues through to part 4 of the series. 30+ fights at that level is no exaggeration(Boxing Bros USA goes through each fighter).

I really suggest you watch the full series. I think too much credit has been given for a such a carefully managed career without many risks taken at all.

How he got the title is often overlooked too. There have been many videos done on the phantom knockout punch of Malik Scot which was an eliminator for the mandatory spot. After that, the "champion" Wilder beat is often severely overrated too. Stiverne didn't have to beat a champion to gain his belt and he had no successful defences(he got outpointed by Wilder aswell in that match which says it all). Stiverne actually won his belt when he faced Arreola for the vacant WBC, a fighter who he had just beaten by a wide decision in his previous fight.

Something isn't right with the way the WBC runs things in general, Breazeale vs Molina was somehow an eliminator for the mandatory spot to face Wilder not long ago. While Whyte was waiting 2 years in the number 1 spot. I can't make sense of how they decide the eliminator candidates, other than politics.

The whole "10 successful defences" tagline was a farce too, 7 of those were the type of guys AJ would get stick for facing even in the first part of his career. Molina, Duhaupas, Szpilka, Arreola, Washington, Stiverne2(after a 2 year layoff) and Breazeale(who AJ already knocked out). How anyone can compare that "reign" to Wlad's or any of the greats I do not know.

Edit: Long post I know... yes I was bored. :)
 
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I know all about Wilder's story. You're half right there, he was exactly 20 years old(it was 2005) it was football,basketball, then boxing. Not much older than AJ, Wilder also competed in the Olympics(won bronze) the difference is AJ fell in love with the sport and Wilder just saw it as a way to make money. He doesn't respect the sport, former champions or the sweet science. He's basically said he doesn't need skill because he has the equalizer in his right hand. The fact that he didn't watch boxing before putting on gloves is completely forgivable but after 10+ years in the sport he still doesn't respect the sport, that is the reason he didn't progress like other have(along with Shelley Finkel's cherry picking masterplan).

I agree it's not unheard of to have some low risk fights early on in a fighters career, it's forgivable for the first few fights(although he was fighting some really really poor opposition). If you have watched the video though this is a step further than that. Many of these guys weren't even journey men, they served no purpose other than to pad his record(KO stats). So it's not like he was upping the levels, raising his experience as you suggest. This continues through to part 4. 30+ fights at that level is no exaggeration(Boxing Bros USA goes through each fighter).

I really suggest you watch the full series. I think too much credit has been given for a such a carefully managed career without many risks taken at all.

How he got the title is often overlook, there have been many videos done on the phantom knockout punch of Malik Scot which was an eliminator for the mandatory spot. After that, "champion" Wilder beat is often severely overrated too. Stiverne didn't have to beat a champion to gain his belt and he had no successful defences(he got outpointed by Wilder which says it all). Stiverne actually won his belt when he faced Arreola for the vacant WBC, a fighter who he had just beaten by a wide decision in his previous fight. Something isn't right with the way the WBC runs things in general, Breazeale vs Molina was somehow an eliminatory for the mandatory spot to face Wilder(while Whyte was waiting 2 years in the number 1 spot).

The whole 10 successful defences was a farce too, 7 of those were the type of guys AJ would get stick for facings in the firhst part of his career. Molina, Duhaupas, Szpilka, Arreola, Washington, Stiverne2(after a 2 year layoff) and Breazeale(who AJ already knocked out). How anyone can compare that "reign" to Wlad's or any of the greats I do not know.

Course he is not a patch on Vitali or Lewis - but the division is pretty poor now with size dominating of any real talent. The way Bruno, Haye and Joshua (last) won their titles, and Fury's first, just going for points wins isn't great for the division. At least Bentt, Hide and Akinwande were HW Champs by KO even though they don't get properly recognised outside the ABCs, but it would be different these days.
 
Course he is not a patch on Vitali or Lewis - but the division is pretty poor now with size dominating of any real talent. The way Bruno, Haye and Joshua (last) won their titles, and Fury's first, just going for points wins isn't great for the division. At least Bentt, Hide and Akinwande were HW Champs by KO even though they don't get properly recognised outside the ABCs, but it would be different these days.
Personally for me it's not about needing knockouts, an evenly match fight doesn't need a knockout to be entertaining. It would be a start if the mandatory challengers were worthy of being mandatory as I alluded to earlier. I think there is potential with the current crop of top 10 fighters(along with those on the fringes like Dubois, Joyce, Yoka, Hrgovic, Usyk), they'd potentially improve each other, if the best faced the best more often. The heavyweight division is stronger than it's been for a long while but if we have too many fighters going the Wilder route, it will all go to waste

My point was, Wilder is not to be mentioned in the same breath as AJ or Fury. Even though Haye turned into a bit of a fraud at HW, he was a decent boxer in his prime too. Wilder's team only picked Fury because they thought he was looking for pay cheque after abusing his body for 2 years. Fury said as much himself and he was not wrong. It could well be this is more to do with Finkel and PBC not believing in their fighters, not allowing them to take any risks but Wilder could have easily parted ways ages ago if he cared about legacy.
 
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My point was, Wilder is not to be mentioned in the same breath as AJ or Fury. Even though Haye turned into a bit of a fraud at HW, he was a decent boxer in his prime too. Wilder's team only picked Fury because they thought he was looking for pay cheque after abusing his body for 2 years. Fury said as much himself and he was not wrong. It could well be this is more to do with Finkel and PBC not believing in their fighters, not allowing them to take any risks but Wilder could have easily parted ways ages ago if he cared about legacy.

I’m no Wilder fan but this is a little harsh. Whilst he was schooled in the second fight the first fight was a draw. And whilst you might not agree with that decision or believe Fury wasn’t in peak condition it was a close call and he did put Fury on the penny twice and one was an undertaker like resurrection (at over 10 seconds).

So id like to see him in against AJ or even Fury again. End of the day he’s been beat once and all the greats bar Mayweather have a defeat. It’s often how they come back.

He’s had a managed career and skills are called into question but interested in seeing how he comes back from the defeat.
 
I didn't agree with the decision of the first fight, those two knocked downs won him two rounds, he was outboxed in pretty much every round outside of those knockdowns for me though by a rusty Fury who looked unimpressive in his warmup fights against lower opposition. I suppose people are entitled to score rounds how they like but the only convincing argument to me was there weren't a lot of shots traded in some of those rounds. I can see giving some 10/10 rounds, if you don't value ringmanship and making your opponent miss but Fury had to have won more than 4 rounds. Again that was more to do with the condition Fury was in too, he was blowing hard in some of those rounds.
He’s had a managed career and skills are called into question but interested in seeing how he comes back from the defeat.
We will see if he can go back to the drawing board and rebuild. I don't see it personally, he showed potential early on in his career(winning Bronze is at atleast something) but he didn't build on it, he's not shown a willingness to do that much in 10+ years as a pro. From a financial perspective, I probably can't argue with it, he went the easy route and made millions doing it, well played in that respect(I'm sure he's a good guy when he's not doing his persona/alter-ego too). As a boxing fan though, I can't applaud the career. He can have the millions and the fame but I'm not going to champion the fake legacy, he'll have to earn that properly.

Going back to the drawing board also requires admitting to your own failings first and it sounds like he's gone down the excuses route again. I don't think Fury will be the last guy to beat him if he sticks around.

I imagine he will fight Fury a 3rd time but I'm not sure beyond that, if it goes the same way. I'd like to see him in vs Whyte personally but I don't see him taking fights like that. I don't even think he'll take a big payday vs AJ, because AJ is the last person he wants to lose to.

Some people have said he wants to go into acting, similar to Tarver. I don't know if he has said something in an interview(could also be trash talk) but that wouldn't surprise me.
 
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