UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Len Rum]

Good article here on why if we lose at CAS it's probably the end of the road

https://tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Bulletin_2020_-_Budapest.pdf… p68 onwards "Case law of the Swiss Federal Tribunal on Challenges against CAS awards (2015-2019)"

"Between 1989 and 2017 decisions on the merits on challenges against CAS awards amount to 126 cases, of which only 10 decisions (7,94%) led to a partial or full setting aside, and 116 consisted of a dismissal39. In the period which I have considered (2016-2019), there were 65 decisions on the merits, out of which only two decisions (i.e. 3 %) consisted in a partial (1) or full (1) setting aside of CAS awards. This shows that the likelihood of success when challenging a CAS award is very low. This is the result of both the quality of CAS awards issued, and also the tendency of the Federal Tribunal to set aside arbitral awards, and in particular CAS awards, only when this is fully justified."

Notwithstanding the above I believe UEFA and it's members agreed that CAS would be the final arbiter and that there would be no recourse to a higher court.

 

[CatMan]

If the club are notified of the decision before or at the draw on Friday and it’s gone badly (I’m in the ‘we’ll win’ camp btw) what’s the chances we withdraw from the competition?

It would be a protest, generating enormous publicity against what the club would consider to be a huge miscarriage of justice; it would make the competition a farce; And let’s face it if it happens there’s zero chance we’d be allowed to win it

There’s probably loads of legal and financial reasons why this would never happen but in a way I’d love the club to do it if the worst was to happen

I said this when they banned us, we should immediately withdraw and not partake EVER again. This pathetic dance to try to get in their good books, so to speak, is as humiliating as trying to force your wife to reconciliation after receiving divorce papers from her lawyer. In short, they hate us and we don't care much for them.

 

[Cobwebcat]

I have been/am enjoying the 'diagnostic/forensic' nature of some of the posts between 'knowledgeable' people about the detail of the process - that after all is where we will be either successful or not at CAS.

But it is very important to realise 'why we are here' and 'how we got to being here' with regard to FFPR - and all CITY fans should understand what the genesis/purpose of FFPR was and the intended outcomes it was designed to achieve - and specifically designed it was - to support certain clubs and to constrain others.

What has happened/is happening with this ban is - in a sense - just one battle within an overall war.

I desperately hope that we are successful in this battle, because if we are not then the consequential damage could lead to us 'losing the war'.

But if we are successful - then the management and owners need to plan/take action to stymie the other plans/battles that the G14 will seek to develop.

People may consider this to be 'tin hat' stuff - I totally refute that and would say that the evidence that this is a wide-ranging and coordinated campaign is compelling.

Thankfully, I am sure that Khaldoon and other management are fully aware of this and will plan accordingly.

I see this thread as being focussed on the CAS/Ban topic - so will not wish to divert - but it is only a single battle within an overall campaign which will likely end up with 1 of 5 outcomes:

1. We lose this battle and are side-lined for several years - more than the 2 due to the consequential damage

2. We are successful and 'live to fight another day' as the G14 (or in reality a sub-set of them) take stock and prepare for their next attack

3. We are successful and as a result become accepted within the future fabric and essentially a 'member'

4. UEFA become badly damaged and unable to implement rules that will placate the G14 and therefore they decide to take overt action / break away.

5. UEFA are able to survive the ire of the (residual members of) the G14 and act to reform in a manner that escapes G14 controls.

But - as I say - stuff for another thread following the result of this appeal

The mistake UEFA made was letting ECA members into UEFA itself and giving them the power to make decisions that benefitted themselves. Now they are accused of (rightly in my book) not being independent.

That’s patently more than lobbying. It’s also why UEFA is now split.

I wish I knew how common this practice was in the business world...@projectriver

 

[Jumanji]

But there's still something nagging at the back of my brain that we HAVE done a deal of some sort with UEFA at CAS, away from the influence exerted by the G-14 clubs, which is why the club seem so confident.

Sorry for being slow, but what does this paragraph actually mean? Are you saying we’d cut a deal with UEFA at CAS plea that we’re guilty?

 

[projectriver]

I don't think Proy was 'unfair' as such. It's obvious that Proy (and most on here) are looking at it from a fans perspective, projectriver is looking at it from a professional viewpoint. Both viewpoints are valid (allowing for rabid optimism from fans, and I include myself in that).

It's good that we have both camps posting.

I'm not fussed if it's unfair or not.

I am looking at it from BOTH a fan's perspective AND a professional viewpoint. I have always approached these situations from both - the 2 are not mutually exclusive. It is just that I can have a view from both due to my professional experience.

 

[ancoats]

I have been/am enjoying the 'diagnostic/forensic' nature of some of the posts between 'knowledgeable' people about the detail of the process - that after all is where we will be either successful or not at CAS.

But it is very important to realise 'why we are here' and 'how we got to being here' with regard to FFPR - and all CITY fans should understand what the genesis/purpose of FFPR was and the intended outcomes it was designed to achieve - and specifically designed it was - to support certain clubs and to constrain others.

What has happened/is happening with this ban is - in a sense - just one battle within an overall war.

I desperately hope that we are successful in this battle, because if we are not then the consequential damage could lead to us 'losing the war'.

But if we are successful - then the management and owners need to plan/take action to stymie the other plans/battles that the G14 will seek to develop.

People may consider this to be 'tin hat' stuff - I totally refute that and would say that the evidence that this is a wide-ranging and coordinated campaign is compelling.

Thankfully, I am sure that Khaldoon and other management are fully aware of this and will plan accordingly.

I see this thread as being focussed on the CAS/Ban topic - so will not wish to divert - but it is only a single battle within an overall campaign which will likely end up with 1 of 5 outcomes:

1. We lose this battle and are side-lined for several years - more than the 2 due to the consequential damage

2. We are successful and 'live to fight another day' as the G14 (or in reality a sub-set of them) take stock and prepare for their next attack

3. We are successful and as a result become accepted within the future fabric and essentially a 'member'

4. UEFA become badly damaged and unable to implement rules that will placate the G14 and therefore they decide to take overt action / break away.

5. UEFA are able to survive the ire of the (residual members of) the G14 and act to reform in a manner that escapes G14 controls.

But - as I say - stuff for another thread following the result of this appeal

this is a good post

and if manchester city win this case completely without any deals uefa will be finished, manchester city should take them to the cleaners
first should be the smearing of our name in the media ? the image of manchester city has been spread worldwide as cheats without a proper defence in court, guilty was issued by uefa and punishment handed out ?

then manchester city should call for changes in the uefa and setup and demand a place on the board, even at the top as vice chairman because we will want future plans and any new ideas as going forward to be put to manchester city and we have a major vote

and lastly a BIG FUCKING apology and sorry from uefa even damages paid to the club and a guard of honor at every game in the mini tournament in august

 

[trumpton]

I always find it ironic that any discretion with uefa results in a monetary fine. According to our rules you've spent too much money so you now need to spend some more.

Situations like ours are just a way for them to stuff their filthy pockets with millions of our clubs money. If it was anything other than a revenue generating stream they would find other ways of punishing clubs (i.e. reducing a clubs future expenditure by the value of the fine).

 

[MillionMilesAway]

That’s my feeling too. I think Projectriver’s point is that unfortunately there’s nothing we can do. What a World we live in!

I think he's right too.

English football is exactly the same - the PL bullied the league into accepting a derisory amount of the TV money.

 

[HelloCity]

A deal could be that UEFA claim they didn’t have the full information at the time because City wouldn’t provide it due to the leaks. Now they’ve seen the full body of evidence they accept that the ban isn’t suitable. UEFA will make changes to the chamber to ensure future leaks are avoided etc.

 

[City_Sean]

Don't agree with that at all. CL qualification should be based on sporting issues, not a politically-motivated campaign to cripple a club. If we've broken rules then it's not unfair that we suffer some sort of sanction but we've already been punished for failing FFP.

Of course it should. But the reality is you can't sign up to a competitions rules and then be upset about it if you have breached them.