What was the problem with 4-3-3

[brightwelleyes]

Pep's 4-3-3 requires supreme confidence and bravery. It's basically a 2-3-5 in possession with the wingers pinned super wide to make space for the 8s and the fullbacks tucked in alongside Fernandinho. We pumped everyone when we played this right.

But if you haven't got the guts or the trust in your teammates to play that high and aggressive it seems things fall apart pretty quickly, and Pep's been tinkering and moving parts around for over a year now trying to find a way to compensate.

That lack of trust starts from the back 2. If they can't be trusted to defend properly, hold that suffocating high line AND start the build-up then you have to drop another body in (sometimes Rodri, sometimes Walker) to help out. It's like dominos after that:

• One of the 8s has to be more conservative and play almost a box to box role to make up the numbers in midfield
• The wingers (inverted or not, I'm not convinced that's the problem exactly) can't stay pinned wide anymore, they need to come inside to link with the midfield and play between the lines instead of behind them
• The full backs then have to try to provide the width, and in doing so you lose all the protection they would otherwise be providing to the midfield

Before you know it the formation is completely mangled, and as we know Pep's system is all about position. At our best we had 7/8 players attacking but all in position to press aggressively. Now we're shapeless, stretched and disconnected and appear to lack numbers all over the pitch. We can't press because we're too disconnected, not because we're too lazy.

There's a few other things going on but fundamentally I think this comes down to Laporte's injury last year and Otamendi and Stones both being mentally shot. If they can't defend high and with, frankly, balls, and they can't break the lines, the whole thing falls apart.

TL;DR If Dias and Laporte can play with bravery and start the build up properly, a lot of our problems go away.

 

[damrider]

The problem is rodri, simple as that. If you play with a single pivot, that pivot needs to be extremely energetic. He's VERY lazy.

This situation blows because we *just* got him and its now blown in our faces in such an important position. What can you even do, spend another 60m on a DM? Sell him? Play a double pivot? Gundo?

No option is good.

 

[KnaresboroughBlue]

Pep's 4-3-3 requires supreme confidence and bravery. It's basically a 2-3-5 in possession with the wingers pinned super wide to make space for the 8s and the fullbacks tucked in alongside Fernandinho. We pumped everyone when we played this right.

We haven't played that way for some time though. Our FBs are staying wide and playing higher up the pitch to give the width that inverted wingers can't to. Our full backs pose little danger from wide positions unfortunately, so it's damaging both our attack and defence. I'd prefer to go back to that way and use the inverted FBs again with classic wingers giving the width and stretching their defence, leaving more room for our creative players and our inverted FBs giving us more protection against the break.

Press hard in that formation and it would be a lot harder for teams to get at us. Competent CBs will of course help.

 

[brightwelleyes]

We haven't played that way for some time though. Our FBs are staying wide and playing higher up the pitch to give the width that inverted wingers can't to. Our full backs pose little danger from wide positions unfortunately, so it's damaging both our attack and defence. I'd prefer to go back to that way and use the inverted FBs again with classic wingers giving the width and stretching their defence, leaving more room for our creative players and our inverted FBs giving us more protection against the break.

Press hard in that formation and it would be a lot harder for teams to get at us. Competent CBs will of course help.

That's my very long-winded point though, I think the high and wide fullbacks, the wingers playing inside and the lack of hard pressing are all symptoms of trying to make allowances for two central defenders who aren't up to it.

 

[GH64]

We haven't played that way for some time though. Our FBs are staying wide and playing higher up the pitch to give the width that inverted wingers can't to. Our full backs pose little danger from wide positions unfortunately, so it's damaging both our attack and defence. I'd prefer to go back to that way and use the inverted FBs again with classic wingers giving the width and stretching their defence, leaving more room for our creative players and our inverted FBs giving us more protection against the break.

Press hard in that formation and it would be a lot harder for teams to get at us. Competent CBs will of course help.

I agree, going back a couple of years if we went 1 up early on and the opposition sat back we would be happy to pass it around at the back and force them to come out and get it. Delph and Walker tucked in much more so we weren't as exposed to a counter when we did go upfield, and we would have run Vardy and Baines around chasing shadows until they weren't a threat from the long ball in the second half because they were knackered. We are trying to force things too quickly.

 

[King KdB of Belgium]

The problem is that Pep loves to tinker the team. I know that this season like most clubs that will play in the European Competitions there will be 3 games a week, once they start. What Pep has got to stop doing is making 6+ changes from one game to the next. By keeping changes to a minimum, it helps the team more because they will know how each player plays.

Wholesale changes just to give players a game makes it much harder for the team to jell, than if there are just one or two. Going background Roberto Mancini was manager, as far as I can remember he always kept the same CB'S but changes both FB'S. The CB'S were only changed when one was injured.

That is part of Pep's problem making to many changes to the defence. I don't think he has kept the same back four for two games running. The back four shouldn't have wholesale changes as this doesn't help the keeper at all. If Pep wants to play 4-3-3 then he has got to play the players in their right positions. I am not saying that the wingers can't swap positions during the game. Sometimes playing a CM on the wing will not work if he has never played there before.

 

[Craig]

And the single pivot to use the language of modern football?

We beat every fucking team in sight and beat every team we came acrossand played football we could only dream of once upon time, the only time we lost was when we went defensive against Liverpool and Spurs in the Champs Lge,, what's going on

Nowt