HS2 - Birmingham to Manchester scrapped.

[Mike N]

Love the fact that HS2 doesn’t connect to HS1, or Cross Rail. Not forgetting that the new Birmingham station is a mile from New Street interchange!

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Love the fact that HS2 doesn’t connect to HS1, or Cross Rail.

HS2 will connect to Cross Rail. At the Old Oak Common interchange station.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Also adding in the fact that HS2 have purchased at least 7 businesses in Piccadilly in preparation for the station redevelopment in recent weeks, makes me think it will still arrive in Manchester. I also think it will arrive quicker than anticipated. I think it’s the Eastern Leg that will be scrapped and the saving put into delivering Manchester.

I've never been convinced that a high speed trans Pennine route makes much sense. Far too expensive and far too disruptive (i.e. it would need loads of houses demolished) for the gains that would be made. Basically, the distance between the stops wouldn't long enough to justify engineering through a densely populated area and/or tricky hilly terrain.

I'd rather see a decent upgrade of the existing Transpennine route: i.e. electrification (already started, to be fair) and four-tracking throughout to enable a mix of express services and stoppers. Quad tracking would still be expensive and need some demolitions, but nothing like as expensive as a highspeed route which would surely need major new tunnelling if the political difficulties of cutting large swathes through existing urban areas is to be avoided.

 

[marco]

So many errors and dodgy assumptions in Jenkin's article I don't know where to start. But his stance is no surprise, he is pretty much against all development of any kind, anywhere.

Jenkins is claiming it won't ever go north of Crewe.

I think he is wrong about that, but surely Crewe is north of Birmingham !

yes a whopping 57.4 miles,,,,big deal

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

yes a whopping 57.4 miles,,,,big deal

Yes, but I am sure it will carry on to Manchester, plus a spur to Preston.

And that's all it needs to do.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

I worked for British Rail back in the 80s and early 90s and in the files at Victoria was the plans to upgrade Victoria, I'm guessing it would have been from the mid 60s electrifying the whole station and expanding it, as I recall it would have made it the largest station in the UK. Odd City connection, it would have included turning the line that goes along the side of the ground becoming the mainline to London(Piccadilly was to be closed and Mayfield maintained). So I have always taken any expansion plans, railway-wise as, I will believe it when I see it! The great advantage of Victoria being until the Ordsall curve Piccadilly was, ironically one of the few places in the UK you couldn't get to directly from Victoria!

 

[Kompany Car]

I've never been convinced that a high speed trans Pennine route makes much sense. Far too expensive and far too disruptive (i.e. it would need loads of houses demolished) for the gains that would be made. Basically, the distance between the stops wouldn't long enough to justify engineering through a densely populated area and/or tricky hilly terrain.

I'd rather see a decent upgrade of the existing Transpennine route: i.e. electrification (already started, to be fair) and four-tracking throughout to enable a mix of express services and stoppers. Quad tracking would still be expensive and need some demolitions, but nothing like as expensive as a highspeed route which would surely need major new tunnelling if the political difficulties of cutting large swathes through existing urban areas is to be avoided.

The Transpennine route is already being upgraded but it has been done on the cheap. There are some really problematic areas like Mossley where the track is in a cutting and you have houses that back onto the line with no space for the overhead line equipment.
Personally I still prefer an upgrade to the Hope Valley line, it will need new tunnels, but they could be combined with new tunnels to relieve the traffic along the A628. We still need a decent southern route across the Pennines and have needed one for the last 40yrs.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Love the fact that HS2 doesn’t connect to HS1, or Cross Rail. Not forgetting that the new Birmingham station is a mile from New Street interchange!

Next to Moor Street and its less than half a mile. 0.4m to be exact. So the same distance from Piccalilly to Piccdlilly Gardens.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Odd City connection, it would have included turning the line that goes along the side of the ground becoming the mainline to London(Piccadilly was to be closed and Mayfield maintained).

The Ashbury's-Phillips Park chord?

It seems like it could be put to a bit more use? I think the old Scotland to Harwich boat trains used to use that route until the late 1980s.

Pre-Covid there was also a once per week TPE service to Scarborough that used it, presumably so that drivers could retain route knowledge?

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

The Transpennine route is already being upgraded but it has been done on the cheap. There are some really problematic areas like Mossley where the track is in a cutting and you have houses that back onto the line with no space for the overhead line equipment.
Personally I still prefer an upgrade to the Hope Valley line, it will need new tunnels, but they could be combined with new tunnels to relieve the traffic along the A628. We still need a decent southern route across the Pennines and have needed one for the last 40yrs.

Yes, I was specifically thinking about those terraced houses in Mossley when I mentioned demolitions.

I agree the Hope Valley route also deserves a major upgrade. Isn't there some improvement work now underway at Dore/Totley junction?