Not a good night at Louisville Airport tonight!

ChicagoBlue said:
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Remarkable that they have such clear pics of EXACTLY what happened to the UPS plane!

And, the story of the American DC-10 that also lost the engine left engine in the exact same manner!

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I often wonder why major airports don’t have multiple videos of every flight that lands/departs. Fairly cheap/basic technology to install now and it’s where most incidents happen.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
People think landing us the scary part, because everyone thinks going from the “soft” air to the “hard” runway is the scariest part of the flight. It isn’t. The takeoff is, by far, the most critical and scary part of the flight. You are leaving the “safe” ground to climb into the “let’s hope the physics works” air, at the heaviest weight you’ll be, with the most fuel you will carry, all while accelerating rapidly towards the end of your “safe” ground that is going to REQUIRE getting airborne.
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I absolutely believe you. I've never been afraid of flying, but now that I'm older, every single time I now find myself thinking, “Jesus, this is a really heavy vehicle, is it really going to become airborne before we run out of runway?” Always seems like a miracle of human ingenuity.
The two shortest runways, it seemed to me, that I ever flew out of, were that small secondary airport at Toronto, you know the one, on the island. And the old Hong Kong airport, before they built the new one. Both sphincter-tightening moments, for me. You see the water coming up swiftly, even from the passenger porthole! You think to yourself, “Well… I think it's time we were in the air, now. Yes — it's definitely time.” Wonder if you ever flew in and out of those two?
Can't imagine what it's like being up front. But at least you're in control. We're not!
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
I absolutely believe you. I've never been afraid of flying, but now that I'm older, every single time I now find myself thinking, “Jesus, this is a really heavy vehicle, is it really going to become airborne before we run out of runway?” Always seems like a miracle of human ingenuity.
The two shortest runways, it seemed to me, that I ever flew out of, were that small secondary airport at Toronto, you know the one, on the island. And the old Hong Kong airport, before they built the new one. Both sphincter-tightening moments, for me. You see the water coming up swiftly, even from the passenger porthole! You think to yourself, “Well… I think it's time we were in the air, now. Yes — it's definitely time.” Wonder if you ever flew in and out of those two?
Can't imagine what it's like being up front. But at least you're in control. We're not!
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I never flew into Kai Tak in HK, only the new one, and the YYZ city airport is too small for the planes I fly…but I know exactly what you mean!

Every now and then we run into a short runway and you wonder at rotation “Could I have REALLY stopped on that runway at V1?”!!

However, RTO (Rejected TakeOff) brakes on an aircraft are eye poppingly good!!
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
I absolutely believe you. I've never been afraid of flying, but now that I'm older, every single time I now find myself thinking, “Jesus, this is a really heavy vehicle, is it really going to become airborne before we run out of runway?” Always seems like a miracle of human ingenuity.
The two shortest runways, it seemed to me, that I ever flew out of, were that small secondary airport at Toronto, you know the one, on the island. And the old Hong Kong airport, before they built the new one. Both sphincter-tightening moments, for me. You see the water coming up swiftly, even from the passenger porthole! You think to yourself, “Well… I think it's time we were in the air, now. Yes — it's definitely time.” Wonder if you ever flew in and out of those two?
Can't imagine what it's like being up front. But at least you're in control. We're not!
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I flew into and out of HK to the old airport about 35 years ago. Definitely the scariest runway as a passenger. I believe the pilots had to aim for a point on a mountain way beyond the airport and then turn at the last minute for the final approach.
Gibraltar is also quite interesting due to the short runway and sea at both ends. The winds, which get funnelled by the rock, are supposed to be quite challenging for pilots.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
I absolutely believe you. I've never been afraid of flying, but now that I'm older, every single time I now find myself thinking, “Jesus, this is a really heavy vehicle, is it really going to become airborne before we run out of runway?” Always seems like a miracle of human ingenuity.
The two shortest runways, it seemed to me, that I ever flew out of, were that small secondary airport at Toronto, you know the one, on the island. And the old Hong Kong airport, before they built the new one. Both sphincter-tightening moments, for me. You see the water coming up swiftly, even from the passenger porthole! You think to yourself, “Well… I think it's time we were in the air, now. Yes — it's definitely time.” Wonder if you ever flew in and out of those two?
Can't imagine what it's like being up front. But at least you're in control. We're not!
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Over here, I am guessing he’ll say La Guardia (NYC), Reagan National (DC) and John Wayne in Orange County, CA as the most “challenging” — short runways, busy, odd approaches/departures — but as he’s a 787 driver now he doesn’t go into them any longer.
 
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west didsblue said:
I flew into and out of HK to the old airport about 35 years ago. Definitely the scariest runway as a passenger. I believe the pilots had to aim for a point on a mountain way beyond the airport and then turn at the last minute for the final approach.
Gibraltar is also quite interesting due to the short runway and sea at both ends. The winds, which get funnelled by the rock, are supposed to be quite challenging for pilots.
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And Funchal in Madeira! I got it years ago on a not-that-windy day and it was still a fun one. I’ve never been to Wellington, NZ but that airport has a rep for nasty turbulence too.
 
Toney’s bookie said:
Not just you - I totally agree with you. His video after the Air India crash was a disgrace.

He’s an attention seeking prick
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I concur on that one especially. I thought he was way over his skis there. I don’t mind him as much as others do but he’s really got to be careful and he should know better on speculation before investigation. Explaining how systems work and what they’re for is a better use of his time.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Over here, I am guessing he’ll say La Guardia (NYC), Reagan National (DC) and John Wayne in Orange County, CA as the most “challenging” — short runways, busy, odd approaches/departures — but as he’s a 787 driver now he doesn’t go into them any longer.
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Indeed, he will!

LGA has an “Expressway Visual 31” approach, where you fly to what were called the Maspeth Tanks (gas tanks like ones we have in England), hang a right to follow the Long Island Expressway (LIE) to a certain point, then turn left to arc to Runway 31 for a visual approach. The entire time, you are slowing down and going down, in the hope of turning final at about 300 feet AGL in line with the runway!! Water at both ends of the runway just made it even sportier!

Reagan National is the downtown airport on the Potomac, where the helicopter crashed into a Regional Airliner recently. When approaching from the North/North West, you have prohibited areas on each side of the Potomac River, as it descends into the wider river downtown. On the right is the Pentagon and Arlington National Cemetery and on the left is the White House, Capitol Building, and Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson monuments. Accordingly, you have to fly over the river, following its winding course down towards the airport where, as you approach the last bridge, you make a hard right turn to line up with the runway at about 200 feet AGL. Again, water at both ends of the runway. That runway is particularly short and the largest aircraft that flies in there is the 757, I believe.

Orange County (John Wayne) isn’t too bad, but it’s short and you have a “Land in the first 2,000 feet or go around” mandate on a short runway, and they’re SUPER noise sensitive there. Leaving is ridiculous, as you hold the brakes, run the power up to full power, rotate asap, pull the nose up to full climb to get as high as possible as quickly as possible, then have to turn left over the marshes by the harbor and lower the nose while pulling the power back to minimum power to depart as quietly as possible! God forbid anyone should create any noise for the billionaires who live in Newport Beach!! That airport is also a death trap with the small aircraft traffic from all the rich folks who think they’re great pilots and want to fly around the beach!! They swing into our path ALL THE TIME and think they own the airspace! This is the airport Harrison Ford was flying into when he landed on the TAXIWAY NEXT TO THE RUNWAY!! He was lucky there were no aircraft taxiing out or he’d have been a goner and it could have been much worse than just him!!

Then, we have San Diego, which has a very steep descent at the end of the approach, as you follow the contour of the hill down to the runway threshold, which is displaced due to it proximity to buildings. The particularly sporty part of this is that in that steep last part of the descent, you go over a parking structure (Laurel Garage), missing it by 100 feet (or so!!!). There are often people on top of the garage waving at you as you come in!! That’s another shorter runway. However, back in the day, I seem to remember BA flying a 747 in there!! Now, THAT would have been a sight to behold.

Lastly, that San Diego approach is notorious for planes getting very low over the city, with the high rise buildings of the left side being higher than the aircraft, and from the airport you can see some aircraft literally DISAPPEAR below the crest of the hill, as you hold your breath that they’ll reemerge before hitting the ground!

Once I literally thought a SWA plane on approach was going to CFIT on its way in, as it disappeared for so long and was so low cresting the hill, I thought they had miscalculated a little too much!!

Those are definitely some of the more challenging approaches to short runways in the U.S., along with Jackson Hole and Reno, which are both high altitude, with terrain on the approach just to the side of the runway centerline.

Jackson Hole is a short runway where you have to land in the first 1,000 instead of 3,000 feet or go around, and it has a high friction surface to help you stop (and tears up your tires!!).

Reno is a very turbulent, hot and high altitude airport in the valley just east of Lake Tahoe and the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada mountains. The winds and thermals, plus the terrain, not only make it a quite uncomfortable approach, but the go around is tricky, too. Perhaps more discomforting is the engine failure on takeoff procedure, which is a complete clusterfuck trying to avoid the terrain!!

Anyway, why worry, you just push a button and the plane flies itself! Amiright?! ;-)
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
Indeed, he will!

LGA has an “Expressway Visual 31” approach, where you fly to what were called the Maspeth Tanks (gas tanks like ones we have in England), hang a right to follow the Long Island Expressway (LIE) to a certain point, then turn left to arc to Runway 31 for a visual approach. The entire time, you are slowing down and going down, in the hope of turning final at about 300 feet AGL in line with the runway!! Water at both ends of the runway just made it even sportier!

Reagan National is the downtown airport on the Potomac, where the helicopter crashed into a Regional Airliner recently. When approaching from the North/North West, you have prohibited areas on each side of the Potomac River, as it descends into the wider river downtown. On the right is the Pentagon and Arlington National Cemetery and on the left is the White House, Capitol Building, and Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson monuments. Accordingly, you have to fly over the river, following its winding course down towards the airport where, as you approach the last bridge, you make a hard right turn to line up with the runway at about 200 feet AGL. Again, water at both ends of the runway. That runway is particularly short and the largest aircraft that flies in there is the 757, I believe.

Orange County (John Wayne) isn’t too bad, but it’s short and you have a “Land in the first 2,000 feet or go around” mandate on a short runway, and they’re SUPER noise sensitive there. Leaving is ridiculous, as you hold the brakes, run the power up to full power, rotate asap, pull the nose up to full climb to get as high as possible as quickly as possible, then have to turn left over the marshes by the harbor and lower the nose while pulling the power back to minimum power to depart as quietly as possible! God forbid anyone should create any noise for the billionaires who live in Newport Beach!! That airport is also a death trap with the small aircraft traffic from all the rich folks who think they’re great pilots and want to fly around the beach!! They swing into our path ALL THE TIME and think they own the airspace! This is the airport Harrison Ford was flying into when he landed on the TAXIWAY NEXT TO THE RUNWAY!! He was lucky there were no aircraft taxiing out or he’d have been a goner and it could have been much worse than just him!!

Then, we have San Diego, which has a very steep descent at the end of the approach, as you follow the contour of the hill down to the runway threshold, which is displaced due to it proximity to buildings. The particularly sporty part of this is that in that steep last part of the descent, you go over a parking structure (Laurel Garage), missing it by 100 feet (or so!!!). There are often people on top of the garage waving at you as you come in!! That’s another shorter runway. However, back in the day, I seem to remember BA flying a 747 in there!! Now, THAT would have been a sight to behold.

Lastly, that San Diego approach is notorious for planes getting very low over the city, with the high rise buildings of the left side being higher than the aircraft, and from the airport you can see some aircraft literally DISAPPEAR below the crest of the hill, as you hold your breath that they’ll reemerge before hitting the ground!

Once I literally thought a SWA plane on approach was going to CFIT on its way in, as it disappeared for so long and was so low cresting the hill, I thought they had miscalculated a little too much!!

Those are definitely some of the more challenging approaches to short runways in the U.S., along with Jackson Hole and Reno, which are both high altitude, with terrain on the approach just to the side of the runway centerline.

Jackson Hole is a short runway where you have to land in the first 1,000 instead of 3,000 feet or go around, and it has a high friction surface to help you stop (and tears up your tires!!).

Reno is a very turbulent, hot and high altitude airport in the valley just east of Lake Tahoe and the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada mountains. The winds and thermals, plus the terrain, not only make it a quite uncomfortable approach, but the go around is tricky, too. Perhaps more discomforting is the engine failure on takeoff procedure, which is a complete clusterfuck trying to avoid the terrain!!

Anyway, why worry, you just push a button and the plane flies itself! Amiright?! ;-)
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I’ve had some crazy landings at Jackson, my nearest airport. Mainly leave from Idaho Falls these days.
Years ago coming home from Australia got diverted to Laramie Wyoming for the night.i remember jumping up and down on the bed in the little motel they’d provided for us, Buck naked.
The pilot walked into the room, given the wrong keys etc. not much eye contact in the morning and only just made it in the morning, 100’ of visibility before touch down
 
west didsblue said:
I flew into and out of HK to the old airport about 35 years ago. Definitely the scariest runway as a passenger. I believe the pilots had to aim for a point on a mountain way beyond the airport and then turn at the last minute for the final approach.
Gibraltar is also quite interesting due to the short runway and sea at both ends. The winds, which get funnelled by the rock, are supposed to be quite challenging for pilots.
Click to expand...

Aah, Gib! It is really nutty how if you come into Gib on foot, you go through a little gate at passport control, and then have to walk across the single runway of the airport to the other side! Very reassuring.

Incidentally, it's not the subject of this thread, but we could easily get a whole conversation going about the user-friendliest and user-unfriendliest airports on the world. And, as a corollary to that, the friendliest and unfriendliest immigration control officials. I've flown to all continents except Antarctica, and my vote for the unfriendliest, hands down, goes to the Americans — specifically, Atlanta, GA. San Francisco was ok, quite welcoming, in fact. Surprisingly, Edmonton in Canada wasn't too welcoming — an over-zealous female official staring me in the eye and grilling me unsmilingly about my intention to go hiking in Jasper hoping to spot some bears… (I did, plenty).

;-)

Windiest — by a mile — Ushuaia (Patagonia). We were being buffeted around like a kite on the beach on a stormy day, coming in to land. Same for take-off. Probably the only time I've been seriously concerned in the air.
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
Indeed, he will!

LGA has an “Expressway Visual 31” approach, where you fly to what were called the Maspeth Tanks (gas tanks like ones we have in England), hang a right to follow the Long Island Expressway (LIE) to a certain point, then turn left to arc to Runway 31 for a visual approach. The entire time, you are slowing down and going down, in the hope of turning final at about 300 feet AGL in line with the runway!! Water at both ends of the runway just made it even sportier!

Reagan National is the downtown airport on the Potomac, where the helicopter crashed into a Regional Airliner recently. When approaching from the North/North West, you have prohibited areas on each side of the Potomac River, as it descends into the wider river downtown. On the right is the Pentagon and Arlington National Cemetery and on the left is the White House, Capitol Building, and Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson monuments. Accordingly, you have to fly over the river, following its winding course down towards the airport where, as you approach the last bridge, you make a hard right turn to line up with the runway at about 200 feet AGL. Again, water at both ends of the runway. That runway is particularly short and the largest aircraft that flies in there is the 757, I believe.

Orange County (John Wayne) isn’t too bad, but it’s short and you have a “Land in the first 2,000 feet or go around” mandate on a short runway, and they’re SUPER noise sensitive there. Leaving is ridiculous, as you hold the brakes, run the power up to full power, rotate asap, pull the nose up to full climb to get as high as possible as quickly as possible, then have to turn left over the marshes by the harbor and lower the nose while pulling the power back to minimum power to depart as quietly as possible! God forbid anyone should create any noise for the billionaires who live in Newport Beach!! That airport is also a death trap with the small aircraft traffic from all the rich folks who think they’re great pilots and want to fly around the beach!! They swing into our path ALL THE TIME and think they own the airspace! This is the airport Harrison Ford was flying into when he landed on the TAXIWAY NEXT TO THE RUNWAY!! He was lucky there were no aircraft taxiing out or he’d have been a goner and it could have been much worse than just him!!

Then, we have San Diego, which has a very steep descent at the end of the approach, as you follow the contour of the hill down to the runway threshold, which is displaced due to it proximity to buildings. The particularly sporty part of this is that in that steep last part of the descent, you go over a parking structure (Laurel Garage), missing it by 100 feet (or so!!!). There are often people on top of the garage waving at you as you come in!! That’s another shorter runway. However, back in the day, I seem to remember BA flying a 747 in there!! Now, THAT would have been a sight to behold.

Lastly, that San Diego approach is notorious for planes getting very low over the city, with the high rise buildings of the left side being higher than the aircraft, and from the airport you can see some aircraft literally DISAPPEAR below the crest of the hill, as you hold your breath that they’ll reemerge before hitting the ground!

Once I literally thought a SWA plane on approach was going to CFIT on its way in, as it disappeared for so long and was so low cresting the hill, I thought they had miscalculated a little too much!!

Those are definitely some of the more challenging approaches to short runways in the U.S., along with Jackson Hole and Reno, which are both high altitude, with terrain on the approach just to the side of the runway centerline.

Jackson Hole is a short runway where you have to land in the first 1,000 instead of 3,000 feet or go around, and it has a high friction surface to help you stop (and tears up your tires!!).

Reno is a very turbulent, hot and high altitude airport in the valley just east of Lake Tahoe and the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada mountains. The winds and thermals, plus the terrain, not only make it a quite uncomfortable approach, but the go around is tricky, too. Perhaps more discomforting is the engine failure on takeoff procedure, which is a complete clusterfuck trying to avoid the terrain!!

Anyway, why worry, you just push a button and the plane flies itself! Amiright?! ;-)
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And then there's the multi-storey car park at SAN!
 

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