How do we fix our Economy and the country?

Im watching question time now which is my bad but the truth, no matter what your party is, if we are being honest is none of the parties have a solution, they cannot deliver on their promises
The Labour guy at the moment is trying to justify broken promises and the freezing of tax allowances. He is dying on his arse, he knows it the panel knows it the audience knows it. Its tragic but as one panelist said it would be the same under the tories.
We have no chance if everyone is claiming they have the answers and we have to choose but reality is they're all lying.

I don’t think any of the political parties have the answer tbh as they are all ultimately beholden to the markets and that’s the issue. We’re approaching an end game to our current form of capitalism, the wealth distribution has skewed way too much to the top and they’ve broken the social contract but governments are still beholden to it. The budget yet again disproportionally impacted the perceived rich vs the actual rich.

God knows what’s going to happen to change that though or how long we’ve got before people really realise that.
 
Fair play to her mate. A lot of folks in this country seem to have forgotten a quite fundamental concept when it comes to welfare - it is a safety net. People's circumstances change. People get ill. People die. People get divorced. People lose their job.

A huge chunk of people in receipt of UC work, and work bloody hard.

To put it plainly, it fucks me off that it's become the accepted position to assume every person claiming has always been claiming, always will be claiming, and is some workshy lazy grifter.

In my experience of actually speaking to human beings out there, putting the internet away for a second and engaging with reality, that isn't even close to being true for the vast majority.

We've totally lost our compassion as a society. The true laziness is believing in these simplistic caricatures of reality instead of appreciating that nothing is ever so simple.
Such a good post mate, and I totally agree. It's always the single mums and the disabled that gets it first when certain people get angry and are out for scapegoats.
 
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We're about to go into a period we're we tell our kids a fat bloke in a red suit comes down our chimney with rosy cheeks and gives out presents. We as humans are mental everyone rushing about now putting pressure on themselves then they moan about tax. Living in this country is easy in 2025 it's just we as humans want more instead of just living to survive
 
Let's have a go at single mums.

One of my sister's is a single mum with 4 kid's, (it's not her fault she's single but I won't open that can of worms on here) She gets UC but also works part-time, two of her kids are still at school.

She's a great mum, and her kids are all sound, brought up the right way. In fact her eldest lad has his own business has about 30 employees and contributes far more to the economy than probably all of the talking heads on here.
No doubt in part to the great job your sister has done in raising him and his siblings, your nephew (along with his ~30 employees) are paying into and covering benefits directed at pensioners - which makes up well over half of all benefit spending (58% in 24/25) and is only going to take up a bigger percentage in our aging society.

It's odd how the biggest recipients are never mentioned whenever benefits are brought up though isn't it.
 
Putting to one side party politics for the moment, what needs to happen to put an end to this mess?

We cant continue down this road we are on.

We need to find a way to pay down the national debt for starters.
How can we get people back into work and contributing to society.
How can we become more productive as a nation.
Can we improve our infrastructure?
How can we overhaul the entire welfare system.
How do we become more self sufficient?

I have never understood this career politician lark, why do we not try having the countries top economical minds in charge of the economy?


Rejoin the Eu..
 
Im watching question time now which is my bad but the truth, no matter what your party is, if we are being honest is none of the parties have a solution, they cannot deliver on their promises
The Labour guy at the moment is trying to justify broken promises and the freezing of tax allowances. He is dying on his arse, he knows it the panel knows it the audience knows it. Its tragic but as one panelist said it would be the same under the tories.
We have no chance if everyone is claiming they have the answers and we have to choose but reality is they're all lying.
I genuinely believe that all parties are not lying when they think they know the answer. It’s just reality kicking them in the teeth when they get the opportunity to solve it.

I have no idea how, as a country, we reverse this trend, but something needs to change pdq.
 
What exactly is a cost of living crisis?
This is now going to sound like the Yorkshiremen sketch from Monty python
I was brought up in a family home where my dad worked all kinds of unsociable hours and my mum part time
They had four children and in winter only one room was heated
when I went shopping with my mum, she had a certain amount of cash to spend on groceries and I lost count of the number of times we had to put stuff back as she didn't have enough money
A family holiday (if we had one) was a week in Blackpool
It was hand me down clothes

I honestly believe that the country's standard of living has improved massively in the last 50 years and people just expect too much and won't do without

Commodities such as clothes, food and energy saw real deflation for years and we became too accustomed to this

However, there are enormous issues with the public sector such as the NHS which requires a 30/40 year plan
Talked about this to the wife quite a lot over last few months, we aren’t poor by any standards but we aren’t rich, I said that peoples expectations need to be tempered now, like you my dad brought up 3 of us on not much whilst my mum stayed home, we didn’t have big holidays in 70/80s apart from 2 occasions, the rest of the time was either butlins (fucking awful) or day trips to Blackpool. When a family holiday is costing anywhere between £3-5k just for Europe it’s getting out of hand. Even going to the pub is getting way to expensive now and City along with most clubs putting prices up are going to have a shock when they open that stand.
Social media doesnt help with everyone thinking that’s how they should be living, its unobtainable now, I don’t know how we solve it, if we ever do I think we have seen the best of times now and we are going back 30-40 years and a holiday will be a luxury and a night out.
 
Im watching question time now which is my bad but the truth, no matter what your party is, if we are being honest is none of the parties have a solution, they cannot deliver on their promises
The Labour guy at the moment is trying to justify broken promises and the freezing of tax allowances. He is dying on his arse, he knows it the panel knows it the audience knows it. Its tragic but as one panelist said it would be the same under the tories.
We have no chance if everyone is claiming they have the answers and we have to choose but reality is they're all lying.

Governments serve at the behest of the markets.

Policy is designed to keep them happy and to fuck with the rest.
 
Here we go - my manifesto to put things right !

Public Sector Pensions - arguably the elephant in the room - salary related public pensions cost approximately £60 bn a year with £30 bn coming from current workers with the government / us making up the other £30bn . There is no underlying fund. It is estimated that the overall future liability / "promised payments" is in the order of £1400 billion in today's value!

Solution : These need to be abolished and be based on actual pension contributions and the performance of an underlying fund and not be salary related / index linked. Companies did this years ago to manage their liabilities and costs - but MP's love their pensions, so they are not going to vote to get rid of them, therefore the rest of the public sector is probably safe. However, given the economics it can't really be allowed to continue. Perhaps introduce to new members only - that way MPs and existing beneficiaries should be happy !

Immigration - Foreign Students - approximately 750,000 per year (nearly 400k from non EU countries). Of the 2021 arrival cohort, 59% continued to hold valid or indefinite leave to remain three years later, compared with 39% for the 2019 cohort. I can't think of a good reason for any of these to remain.

Solution: Enforce study periods and hold bonds for foreign students (offered by private companies and mandatory for all students or those coming from problem areas (those least likely to return to their country of origin). Bond forfeited by private company if student doesn't return. The private company has the right to apprehend and return students to immigration officials if they breach their study period. Bit like the USA, for criminal offenders out on bail, who breach their bail conditions.

No extensions to the initial study periods to be granted, without going through the complete process again and a strict limit of x years put on study terms with enforcement from immigration officials . Foreign Student non attendance to be notified immediately to immigration officials and offenders removed / have their visas cancelled. Absenteeism rates, of say 20%, should result in the immediate cancellation of study visas.

Fines and closure for universities and schools that have a high percentage of non returning foreign students (some of these schools are a complete scam - just a means for people to enter the country). To ensure proper credentials of universities and schools, foreign students should be limited to a fixed percentage of UK students (e.g. maximum of 20%). No family members should be permitted. If the child is a minor they should not be here or they should be in a paid for full-boarding facility.


Economic migrants / small boats - Solution no payment of benefits until citizenship (think this has been proposed but see potential problem below) and no more rights than an individual in the UK.

No language support/ non english documents - except when removing / challenging their right to stay .

Any employer or anyone employing an illegal immigrant fined £100,000 or 5% of their turnover whichever is greater (consistent offenders to face forfeiture of business/ assets and the same applies to any business / person leasing premises to consistent offenders). These rules would apply to the main and sub contractors - i.e to capture any business ultimately benefiting from the employment of illegal immigrants. Rewards of £10,000 for every illegal immigrant worker who is reported and subsequently deported.

This would choke off the reason for immigrants coming here and avoiding immediate safe havens. If we remove the right to benefits before citizenship, we will see an explosion in illegal working, so this has to be controlled and policed to a far greater extent than it has in the past.

Reform of the welfare state - needs to be based on contribution and helping temporarily, not permanently (a way of life), plus stimulating economic activity not discouraging it e.g rent being paid for you if you only work a maximum of 16 hours or per week . When this point is reached there simply is no incentive to work - hence businesses can't find anyone to employ or have 3 part time "workers" where they used to have one. Solution: Remove free rent after a period of time or put it on a sliding scale (lose 20%- 33% per year after year one) and combine it with a condition to work more hours. Perhaps only make rent payments available to new people, who have at least completed a certain minimum period of full time hours, in the first place.

Uk mobility scheme - limit it to one car manufacturer and base models or cancel all together.

Skilled workers and immigrant labour Solution - Establish a technical college in each major town so we have the plumbers, builders, and crafts people to both maintain and build the infrastructure and housing we require today and in the future.
At the moment, we can't even maintain what we have, never mind building 1.5 million new homes. Courses should also include the hospitality, care and every other sector of the economy (priority should be given to creating places where we have the greatest needs and import the most workers). Every school leaver should have a skill and hence no excuse not to work. With AI a lot of more intellectual /student type jobs will be lost . Technical colleges offering skills can fill the hole and make sure the economy benefits not suffers as a result.

Long term unemployed should be encouraged to attend, take courses, or lose their right to benefits ... There should be creches on site,with priority given to single mums, or people/families coming from the long-term unemployed. The most recent youth labour‑market bulletins show around 2.86 million 16–24‑year‑olds were economically inactive (inactivity rate ~38.4%) in the latest quarter, and youth unemployment and employment figures are published in the same releases.

According to the OBD an average low‑paid worker who arrives in Britain at age 25 can cost the public purse roughly £150,000 over their working lifetime (measured to state pension age). If a newly retired person receives £12,800 per year in public spending and lives 15 years after pension age, nominal public spending ≈ £192,000; for 20 years it’s ≈ £256,000. These are straightforward multiplications and do not discount future spending to present value or include all NHS/social‑care costs, which would increase totals. So with healthcare and pensions and other benefits many of these low paid immigrant workers could cost us £500,000 over a lifetime. Many of these work in the health service etc, because we do not have the people with the necessary skills/willing. The above needs to and should address this !

Dynamic assessment / Active management - we need to constantly assess where rises in unemployment / immigration are coming from and take action immediately - provision of courses and skills, removal of benefits , stricter assessments and look at the corresponding potential long term damage/benefits and prioritize on that basis. This should be hardwired into Government reporting and management.

MP's pay and experience - Quadruple MP's pay or have salary alignment if they have relevant sector experience to encourage people that have actually done the job to go into politics and discourage career politicians. For example , an ex general/high ranking successful officer to be responsible for the military, the head of the most successful National Health Service Trust to run the NHS, etc...

It's incredible to think that today we probably have someone in charge of the armed forces or national health that has no military or health service experience and has never managed a huge budget or corporation / organization. This would never happen in industry. Basically, as in most things in life, you get what you pay for and there is no substitute for real job experience. At the moment hardly any of our MPS have any private sector job experience never mind relevant directly related job experience.

The Governement has the biggest jobs and budgets with the biggest implications - we need and deserve the best people to manage them !
Obviously you don't know how the mobility scheme works.
 
I don’t think any of the political parties have the answer tbh as they are all ultimately beholden to the markets and that’s the issue. We’re approaching an end game to our current form of capitalism, the wealth distribution has skewed way too much to the top and they’ve broken the social contract but governments are still beholden to it. The budget yet again disproportionally impacted the perceived rich vs the actual rich.

God knows what’s going to happen to change that though or how long we’ve got before people really realise that.
Completely agree with this. From 1945 to 2008 the system, whilst still flawed, delivered increasing living standards across the social classes but since the credit crunch it’s no longer working in that way.

The wealth disparity now, not just in the UK btw, is grotesque.

Something will give eventually. Those at the top can avoid this btw, but they won’t.
 
Too much national debt, trillions of pounds of it.

Think I heard Reeves say that the budget would reduce that by 1% over the next 4 years or something similar...that's not making any sort of dent in it.

The solution is to either move GB's accounts to The Cayman Islands or spend nothing for 10 years and I mean nothing.

In reality we're fucked and will be possibly forever, spending monies on HS2 isn't helping and although costing a fortune as are other bright ideas is nothing compared to the national debt.
 
No doubt in part to the great job your sister has done in raising him and his siblings, your nephew (along with his ~30 employees) are paying into and covering benefits directed at pensioners - which makes up well over half of all benefit spending (58% in 24/25) and is only going to take up a bigger percentage in our aging society.

It's odd how the biggest recipients are never mentioned whenever benefits are brought up though isn't it.
"Biggest recipients" who ?
 
Too much national debt, trillions of pounds of it.

Think I heard Reeves say that the budget would reduce that by 1% over the next 4 years or something similar...that's not making any sort of dent in it.

The solution is to either move GB's accounts to The Cayman Islands or spend nothing for 10 years and I mean nothing.

In reality we're fucked and will be possibly forever, spending monies on HS2 isn't helping and although costing a fortune as are other bright ideas is nothing compared to the national debt.

I'm way off in politics so be patient with me...

Who the fuck do we owe trillions of £ to? what are the implications of saying "we're skint mate, here's £150 a month"? and forgetting that, why to we pump money over to other counties? (I get we want to help). If I was in a shit tonne of debt, the last thing id be doing is chucking money over to my mates, I'd be getting my own shit sorted first.

Another point that seems mental, how is there nothing in place to hold politicians to account? It seems as though the majority of what they said has been a lie. If I had a job interview and said I'm going to do XY and Z, then 12 months later I had done the complete opposite I'd be sacked. Surely you cant just blag you're way in then just stick 2 fingers up at everyone.
 
I don’t think any of the political parties have the answer tbh as they are all ultimately beholden to the markets and that’s the issue. We’re approaching an end game to our current form of capitalism, the wealth distribution has skewed way too much to the top and they’ve broken the social contract but governments are still beholden to it. The budget yet again disproportionally impacted the perceived rich vs the actual rich.

God knows what’s going to happen to change that though or how long we’ve got before people really realise that.

I think this is the underlying challenge of where we are today (let's park for a moment potentially existential issues like environmental impact!). If you look at the rate of wealth concentration and compare it to economic growth, the former outstrips the latter indicating that what is really happening is not simply the rich creating wealth and taking a bigger chunk but they are actively transferring back to themselves the wealth the majority managed to accrue through the post WW2 social contract. There's still plenty of ordinary people who aren't yet impoverished but, if we continue with the current model, the logical conclusion is that most will be.

In some ways its entirely understandable.
For a 'golden' period after WW2 ordinary people got a bigger share of the pot and we bucked the axiom that 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer'. From the late 1970s onwards the rich and powerful decided they wanted it back and so far have been quite successful in achieving this especially in recent years. 'Elite capture' of policy and the shaping of financial systems means we've got a situation where it's quite difficult for governments to do anything other than what they are 'told' to do. Not only do the bond markets have great power, but when seven tech firms are responsible for 36% of the S&P 500's value they also wield a lot of power (and concentrate shitloads of risk).

In terms of what happens next I suspect it's all played out on the battlefield of technology both ideologically and practically. Some of the tech titans believe they can run the world better than elected nation state governments or at a minimum believe governments should not be allowed to constrain their ambitions. One of them currently has his boy lined up for when Trump falls off his perch.

Unlike the previous industrial revolution the power of these industrialists is much more heavily concentrated and interconnected which makes them an order of magnitude more powerful both in perception and reality.

I suppose it could go one of three ways::

1. Recognition of the scale of technological impact on jobs means that tech firms and governments collaborate to create a new social contract involving UBI etc in order to keep the peace
2. Technology simply increases the level of inequality and either people accept impoverishment or shit gets real
3. The very dodgy tech bubble bursts the markets go properly down the crapper and in the ensuing chaos some new approach emerges...

Either way I don't think it's unfair to say that many governments have lost control of the levers to pursue policies their citizens might actually want. The big tech firms and leaders don't yet have private armies but perhaps they don't need them as they are increasingly controlling the infrastructure to prosecute war. Either way the window for nation states to 'take back control' is probably closing.

Which might leave us with accepting a return to a world where there's not much in it for ordinary people or we metaphorically get the pitchforks and torches out.

Of course some people have already got pitchfork and torches out it's just that they're chasing the village moor, whilst the vampire in the manor house looks out of the window and smirks.
 
Putting to one side party politics for the moment, what needs to happen to put an end to this mess?

We cant continue down this road we are on.

We need to find a way to pay down the national debt for starters.
How can we get people back into work and contributing to society.
How can we become more productive as a nation.
Can we improve our infrastructure?
How can we overhaul the entire welfare system.
How do we become more self sufficient?

I have never understood this career politician lark, why do we not try having the countries top economical minds in charge of the economy?
I'd abolish the NHS. Undoubtably a great idea on paper (and probably morally) but it's at the absolute centre of our decline. "From the cradle to the grave" has become an expectation not a privilege. Bit like offering free car insurance to everyone and then stepping back in amazement when we all drive around as lunatics.
 
A lot of the money we owe to ourselves. And the pension funds would be mightily pissed off if it were no longer possible to buy UK gilts, one of the safest investments known to personkind.

It is important always to understand that government financing is way more complex than yours or mine, or even that of a big business. In fact, one of the great errors of the last 40 years has been to convince people that they are the same thing.
 
I'm way off in politics so be patient with me...

Who the fuck do we owe trillions of £ to? what are the implications of saying "we're skint mate, here's £150 a month"? and forgetting that, why to we pump money over to other counties? (I get we want to help). If I was in a shit tonne of debt, the last thing id be doing is chucking money over to my mates, I'd be getting my own shit sorted first.
If you do not pay your debts no one is going to lend to you ever again. Or even worse never put trust or investment into you ever again.

Another point that seems mental, how is there nothing in place to hold politicians to account? It seems as though the majority of what they said has been a lie. If I had a job interview and said I'm going to do XY and Z, then 12 months later I had done the complete opposite I'd be sacked. Surely you cant just blag you're way in then just stick 2 fingers up at everyone.
100% a very good point.
 

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