How do we fix our Economy and the country?

I genuinely believe that all parties are not lying when they think they know the answer. It’s just reality kicking them in the teeth when they get the opportunity to solve it.

I have no idea how, as a country, we reverse this trend, but something needs to change pdq.
But the arguments have been the same over the years, there is no way on God's earth they are that naive.

I mean it was all about growth and not taxing and now its all about taxing and growth is pushed to one side. Thats just one thing.

We simply can't reduce debt, not borrow loads, raise taxes, improve services, modernise infrastructure, go greener, increase growth and have lower taxes.

These things all clash with each other. The.parties all promise the earth to get in then spend 5 yrs fiddling round the edges and deceiving people to try to make it look like they are actually making progress. If you give with one you must take with the other thats just a basic fact.

They've been at it for as long as i can remember

Low tax smaller state vs high tax better public services. Personal responsibility vs group Socialism, business owners vs workers, blue vs red.
One is the way to nirvana take your choice from our fully costed manifesto ie sales pitch and look forward to a brighter future for all.

Surprise surprise there is no nirvana so someone has to get shafted.

The only difference now is parties keep changing their mind on which principle they actually follow, it changes weekly depending on the story in the press or the poll ratings.

Politics where failure means a laugh with the opposition in the commons bar, a good salary, great pension and a place in the Lords.

They will be talking about low productivity next the cheeky fuckers:-)
 
I genuinely believe that all parties are not lying when they think they know the answer. It’s just reality kicking them in the teeth when they get the opportunity to solve it.

I have no idea how, as a country, we reverse this trend, but something needs to change pdq.
Surely though, if your young son or daughter asks you "Can I have an Xbox for Christmas?", you do not say "Yes" and then do not deliver? You say, "If we can afford it" or "No".
 
Here we go - my manifesto to put things right !

Public Sector Pensions - arguably the elephant in the room - salary related public pensions cost approximately £60 bn a year with £30 bn coming from current workers with the government / us making up the other £30bn . There is no underlying fund. It is estimated that the overall future liability / "promised payments" is in the order of £1400 billion in today's value!

Solution : These need to be abolished and be based on actual pension contributions and the performance of an underlying fund and not be salary related / index linked. Companies did this years ago to manage their liabilities and costs - but MP's love their pensions, so they are not going to vote to get rid of them, therefore the rest of the public sector is probably safe. However, given the economics it can't really be allowed to continue. Perhaps introduce to new members only - that way MPs and existing beneficiaries should be happy !

Immigration - Foreign Students - approximately 750,000 per year (nearly 400k from non EU countries). Of the 2021 arrival cohort, 59% continued to hold valid or indefinite leave to remain three years later, compared with 39% for the 2019 cohort. I can't think of a good reason for any of these to remain.

Solution: Enforce study periods and hold bonds for foreign students (offered by private companies and mandatory for all students or those coming from problem areas (those least likely to return to their country of origin). Bond forfeited by private company if student doesn't return. The private company has the right to apprehend and return students to immigration officials if they breach their study period. Bit like the USA, for criminal offenders out on bail, who breach their bail conditions.

No extensions to the initial study periods to be granted, without going through the complete process again and a strict limit of x years put on study terms with enforcement from immigration officials . Foreign Student non attendance to be notified immediately to immigration officials and offenders removed / have their visas cancelled. Absenteeism rates, of say 20%, should result in the immediate cancellation of study visas.

Fines and closure for universities and schools that have a high percentage of non returning foreign students (some of these schools are a complete scam - just a means for people to enter the country). To ensure proper credentials of universities and schools, foreign students should be limited to a fixed percentage of UK students (e.g. maximum of 20%). No family members should be permitted. If the child is a minor they should not be here or they should be in a paid for full-boarding facility.


Economic migrants / small boats - Solution no payment of benefits until citizenship (think this has been proposed but see potential problem below) and no more rights than an individual in the UK.

No language support/ non english documents - except when removing / challenging their right to stay .

Any employer or anyone employing an illegal immigrant fined £100,000 or 5% of their turnover whichever is greater (consistent offenders to face forfeiture of business/ assets and the same applies to any business / person leasing premises to consistent offenders). These rules would apply to the main and sub contractors - i.e to capture any business ultimately benefiting from the employment of illegal immigrants. Rewards of £10,000 for every illegal immigrant worker who is reported and subsequently deported.

This would choke off the reason for immigrants coming here and avoiding immediate safe havens. If we remove the right to benefits before citizenship, we will see an explosion in illegal working, so this has to be controlled and policed to a far greater extent than it has in the past.

Reform of the welfare state - needs to be based on contribution and helping temporarily, not permanently (a way of life), plus stimulating economic activity not discouraging it e.g rent being paid for you if you only work a maximum of 16 hours or per week . When this point is reached there simply is no incentive to work - hence businesses can't find anyone to employ or have 3 part time "workers" where they used to have one. Solution: Remove free rent after a period of time or put it on a sliding scale (lose 20%- 33% per year after year one) and combine it with a condition to work more hours. Perhaps only make rent payments available to new people, who have at least completed a certain minimum period of full time hours, in the first place.

Uk mobility scheme - limit it to one car manufacturer and base models or cancel all together.

Skilled workers and immigrant labour Solution -
Establish a technical college in each major town so we have the plumbers, builders, and crafts people to both maintain and build the infrastructure and housing we require today and in the future.
At the moment, we can't even maintain what we have, never mind building 1.5 million new homes. Courses should also include the hospitality, care and every other sector of the economy (priority should be given to creating places where we have the greatest needs and import the most workers). Every school leaver should have a skill and hence no excuse not to work. With AI a lot of more intellectual /student type jobs will be lost . Technical colleges offering skills can fill the hole and make sure the economy benefits not suffers as a result.

Long term unemployed should be encouraged to attend, take courses, or lose their right to benefits ... There should be creches on site,with priority given to single mums, or people/families coming from the long-term unemployed. The most recent youth labour‑market bulletins show around 2.86 million 16–24‑year‑olds were economically inactive (inactivity rate ~38.4%) in the latest quarter, and youth unemployment and employment figures are published in the same releases.

According to the OBD an average low‑paid worker who arrives in Britain at age 25 can cost the public purse roughly £150,000 over their working lifetime (measured to state pension age). If a newly retired person receives £12,800 per year in public spending and lives 15 years after pension age, nominal public spending ≈ £192,000; for 20 years it’s ≈ £256,000. These are straightforward multiplications and do not discount future spending to present value or include all NHS/social‑care costs, which would increase totals. So with healthcare and pensions and other benefits many of these low paid immigrant workers could cost us £500,000 over a lifetime. Many of these work in the health service etc, because we do not have the people with the necessary skills/willing. The above needs to and should address this !

Dynamic assessment / Active management - we need to constantly assess where rises in unemployment / immigration are coming from and take action immediately - provision of courses and skills, removal of benefits , stricter assessments and look at the corresponding potential long term damage/benefits and prioritize on that basis. This should be hardwired into Government reporting and management.

MP's pay and experience - Quadruple MP's pay or have salary alignment if they have relevant sector experience to encourage people that have actually done the job to go into politics and discourage career politicians. For example , an ex general/high ranking successful officer to be responsible for the military, the head of the most successful National Health Service Trust to run the NHS, etc...

It's incredible to think that today we probably have someone in charge of the armed forces or national health that has no military or health service experience and has never managed a huge budget or corporation / organization. This would never happen in industry. Basically, as in most things in life, you get what you pay for and there is no substitute for real job experience. At the moment hardly any of our MPS have any private sector job experience never mind relevant directly related job experience.

The Governement has the biggest jobs and budgets with the biggest implications - we need and deserve the best people to manage them !
Absolutely clueless
 
I would argue that what we have now is not capitalism - a relatively benign system - but corporatism, where power and money are concentrated in very few hands. The likes of Bill Gates and Elon Musk are arguably more powerful than many 'sovereign' states.

I believe it's quite untenable in the long term and will eventually collapse. (But I may not be here by then.)

This is one reason why I believe in, and support, supra-national organisations like the EU, that do at least potentially have the ability to tell the plutocrats where to get off.

It's very telling that the Right in politics is opposed to such organisations, wants us out of them, and fetishises the nation state, which, in the face of the economic winds blowing, is about as effective as a parish council.

Ultimately, the choice will lie between being effectively ruled by unelected plutocratic criminals (with some window-dressing to delude the sheep) and revolution. And be under no illusion, the latter choice will not be an easy or painless road. The contrary, if anything.
 
Sack every MP and let AI run the show. Least it doesn't need a fucking subsidised bar and a second home in London. Can't do any worse.
Another spanner in the works, AI about to explode into our lives, its also mad that we now go into a supermarket and serve ourselves and put other people out of a job.
 
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Putting to one side party politics for the moment, what needs to happen to put an end to this mess?

We cant continue down this road we are on.

We need to find a way to pay down the national debt for starters.
How can we get people back into work and contributing to society.
How can we become more productive as a nation.
Can we improve our infrastructure?
How can we overhaul the entire welfare system.
How do we become more self sufficient?

I have never understood this career politician lark, why do we not try having the countries top economical minds in charge of the economy?

We need to invest in young people and productive enterprise. Services, including education, are now a huge economic driver, and we're good at it - do more. Property as a risk hedge has transferred wealth to the elderly.

Abolish stamp duty and instead make houses subject to capital gains. Use the cash to invest in social housing.

Rejoin the EU.

Remodel our cities for people along Dutch lines incl public transport. London is doing ok here.

Invest in education, particularly early years. Make is the new Finland. Encourage, not tax, foreign students.

Accept reality that demographics of rising elderly numbers will drive tax (or personal expenses) up. Stop defying gravity with the pretence that we can have a low tax and decent society. Tax people not business.

Remodel NHS on basis of most successful European models (not US!)

Embrace positive immigration. We need it.
 
We need to invest in young people and productive enterprise. Services, including education, are now a huge economic driver, and we're good at it - do more. Property as a risk hedge has transferred wealth to the elderly.

Abolish stamp duty and instead make houses subject to capital gains. Use the cash to invest in social housing.

Rejoin the EU.

Remodel our cities for people along Dutch lines incl public transport. London is doing ok here.

Invest in education, particularly early years. Make is the new Finland. Encourage, not tax, foreign students.

Accept reality that demographics of rising elderly numbers will drive tax (or personal expenses) up. Stop defying gravity with the pretence that we can have a low tax and decent society. Tax people not business.

Remodel NHS on basis of most successful European models (not US!)

Embrace positive immigration. We need it.
Unfortunately the answer to nearly everything is money spent well, we don't have any and we dont often spend it very well.

Im not going into immigration, that pyramid scheme as been discussed endlessly.
I think we can all come up with good genuine ideas but the sticking point is where are we getting the money from?
 
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Unfortunately the answer to nearly everything is money spent well, we don't have any and we dont often spend it very well.

Im not going into immigration, that pyramid scheme as been discussed endlessly.
I think we can all come up with good genuine ideas but the sticking point is where are we getting the money from?
Totally agree about all governments spunking money up the wall.
We seem hell bent in this country for having Gov investigation after investigation. I have no idea how much each costs, but as an example the COVID enquiry will have cost absolute millions and will conclude with what we already knew
 
Agree, but you're suggesting a base car only is needed for all
Certainly wouldn't want to exclude those with adaptions as they have the greatest need but they are ony a real small percenatge of the overall total. "About 80,000 cars in the UK Motability Scheme have adaptations — roughly 10% of all vehicles leased".
 
Unfortunately the answer to nearly everything is money spent well, we don't have any and we dont often spend it very well.

Im not going into immigration, that pyramid scheme as been discussed endlessly.
I think we can all come up with good genuine ideas but the sticking point is where are we getting the money from?

Per the post, we're currently as a country simply in denial about demographics.

Whether through tax or personally, we will pay a lot more than we have historically.

All the blather in this thread about govt waste is a nice demonstration of this.

The population is much older than it ever has been, and we can't avoid paying for it one way or another.
 
Another spanner in the works, AI about to explode into our lives, its also mad that we now go into a supermarket and serve ourselves and put other people out of a job.

The ai revolution has me concerned for the prospects of my children and theirs.

Goverment are pushing the opportunities ai will undoubtedly create,whilst simultaneously glossing over the huge upheaval it will potentially create.
 
Per the post, we're currently as a country simply in denial about demographics.

Whether through tax or personally, we will pay a lot more than we have historically.

All the blather in this thread about govt waste is a nice demonstration of this.

The population is much older than it ever has been, and we can't avoid paying for it one way or another.
Been plenty of talk on demographics, its how you deal with it.

The politicians ignore it(no answers 5 year election cycles head in sand someone will eventually have to deal with it like social care, all gone quiet on that)

Others simplistic answer is just more people(head in sand, someone else will have to deal with the downsides in the future)
 
The above exchange demonstrates the other big problem - perspective. Your garden variety voter has zero sense of perspective.

We’re expending so much energy in the national conversation for things like Motability and the asylum system.

If you stopped Motability tomorrow and you chucked out every person in the asylum process (not at all suggesting those are good ideas), you would save a whopping… £8Bn. Add stopping HS2 in there and you might get to £20Bn for the next few years (though we would lose the well understood economic benefits of increased capacity for freight so would probably end up worse off).

I can absolutely guarantee people wouldn’t notice the financial benefit if we ditched all of those things.

We spend £190Bn on the NHS, £125Bn on pensions, £110Bn on debt interest.

Penny smart, pound foolish comes to mind.

Focusing on these things is fussing at the margins. It is nowhere near enough to change the game at a national level. Some people clamour for the country to be run like a business. Well those same people would probably not like to hear it, but a good CEO would not be wasting a second of their time considering any of these things because they simply don’t matter on an economic level in the grand scheme of things.

To actually improve our lot we need to fundamentally overhaul the entire tax system, the wealth disparities and the underlying economic make-up of the country.
 
The ai revolution has me concerned for the prospects of my children and theirs.

Goverment are pushing the opportunities ai will undoubtedly create,whilst simultaneously glossing over the huge upheaval it will potentially create.
You can't uncreate something unfortunately, its one of those things where other countries and businesses will use it so everyone has to, I believe it will be dangerous and make us all poorer.
Even now at its infancy we are all watching things and thinking is this real? The consequences of not being able to trust your own eyes is frightening.
 

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