The Album Review Club - Week #216 (page 1412) - Together Alone - Crowded House

[threespires]

Time Out – The Dave Brubeck Quartet

“Take Five” is superb; the sax melody line, the piano and the brilliant drumming. I particularly like the lengthy section where the sax drops away whilst the piano plays a simple but hypnotic rhythm allowing the drummer to take centre stage. There’s a lot of interesting stuff going on with the drums here.

Joe Morello proving you don't need hair to your knees, an array of rack toms and half a dozen crash cymbals to play a brilliant solo. Lord do I sound like my Dad :-)

 

[GornikDaze]

Joe Morello proving you don't need hair to your knees, an array of rack toms and half a dozen crash cymbals to play a brilliant solo. Lord do I sound like my Dad :-)

Jazz isn’t my favourite genre of music by any means. However when you hear it like this, being played by four guys at the absolute pinnacle of their trade, it’s just incredible.

 

[mrbelfry]

Jazz is kind of dense with a long and well established sets of traditions and rules. Where Time Out by the Dave Brubek Quartet is seemingly an accessible form of Jazz as it is quite easy to listen to I still get the feeling that I’m missing out greatly by not having more understanding of those rules and traditions.

Jazz used to be pop music but at a time where people used to read musical scores rather than listen to the radio. But does the complexity and tradition of jazz demonstrate a decline in musical taste OR did the rise of rock and roll mean that some of jazz’s strengths become quite common place?

Take for example the 7th chord. A jazz staple that is now fairly common place n gospel, blues and soul. You like the dissonant chords and voicings of jazz? Let me tell you about metal music. I ran out of examples but my very rudimentary understanding of jazz concludes as follows:
a) jazz attempts to make dissonance sounds smooth
b) smooth things sound dissonant
c) or everything sound unlistenable

This means that listenable jazz will always sound old fashioned because we are used to tension and anxiety and we hear smooth all the time. For example Take Five was used to advertise Twirls. It’s a fine chocolate but as a less sexy flake it’s not an exciting one. It doesn’t even contain raisins. A nice piece of music with a great drum solo but one that is utilising techniques pretty common place in other genres that it sounds almost basic. Devoid of the context - the rules and traditions of jazz - it is an incomplete experience.

Blue Rondo a la Turk is a great opener as a fun and exciting track but the sax interludes seem absolutely pointless. I’m absolutely sure there will be a reason but it ultimately just sounds cheesy to me. The same is true of much of the rest of the songs. I ultimately just don’t get it. It’s perfectly nice to listen to but I’ve not done the homework to truly appreciate it which leaves me unsure if there is even stuff here to appreciate. It just feels old fashioned and nice like an interaction you might have with an old lady on the bus. It was a nice moment but I’m not going to marry her. For Take Five and Blue Rondo I have to add a 1 and I know I’m probably outing myself as an ignoramus I’m going to score this a 3 as it didn’t really get my blood boiling.

I have tried to get into jazz at various times of my life but at this point I take the same approach as I do to something like Lord of the Rings. I tried it once and it was obviously good but I just can’t face the investment.

 

[bennyboy]

First time listening to an full album of jazz music.Three times in fact.
Got nothing out of it to make me listen to another jazz record.Liked the piano parts and the quiet drumming but but found it very samey as the recording went on.
Same with the sax playing but I thought they did not compliment the piano as well as the drum sound.
Brave pick but not for me.4.

 

[LGWIO]

Lovely review @threespires and great recorder knowledge! I would point out that our quartet consisted of two descants, one treble and me on the tenor, not unlike this one (definitely a black and white one)

Immediately had the image of you throwing out a "devils horns" hand sign after a stunning tenor solo.

 

[LGWIO]

Never listened to a whole jazz album, well not by choice.

I must thank @GornikDaze for dropping this one in as it did bring back long lost memories of my old man when growing up. Him always being pushed from pillar to post trying to run his own business whilst being hassled by siblings who lead "easier" lives. One of his few pleasures was closing his eyes with a glass of whisky as he nodded a long to some jazz album. Coleman Hawkins & Connonball Adderley being ones I vaguely recall.

I think like every other listener I had heard "Take 5" before but became aware of the first listen that I had never heard it all the way through. The underlying piano and effective "drum solo", so to speak in the middle something that I was unaware of. Maybe it was trying to rebel against my old man but I think I resisted listening to jazz, so once again this thread has forced me to broaden my horizons.

I was pleased @threespires mentioned Aphex as that came to mind as I was listening driving home from work this morning. The dissonance and (often) lack of a flow or pattern to the tracks made me question why I like and listen to a lot of ambient/AT stuff yet had never given time to jazz. The unappreciative child perhaps should have given his old man more credit!

I also smiled to myself whilst listening as I pondered whether AT is any less the virtuoso compared to any of this quartet simply because he doesn't play a "real instrument". (would that count as blatant wumming?)

Its going to be another couple of listens on the commute tomorrow but I have been very pleasantly surprised.

 

[RobMCFC]

Bait taken.

AT is probably a good programmer. Doesn’t make him a good musician.

I can’t understand why somebody would choose to listen to stuff like AT over a proper band of musicians like The Dave Brubeck Quartet. The difference is like night and day.

 

[Coatigan]

Man I'm so far behind on the posts reviews and discussions this week!

 

[It Started With A Miss]

So a question for the posters who like this album which is fine but how do the new Jazz bands stack up to this?

On another tangent I have just put on the New Music thread the new one from Beck.
In Sea Change mode on it

 

[RobMCFC]

So a question for the posters who like this album which is fine but how do the new Jazz bands stack up to this?

On another tangent I have just put on the New Music thread the new one from Beck.
In Sea Change mode on it

I liked this album but I don't listen to jazz so can't answer your question.

Thanks for the tip-off on Beck. I'll have a listen to the new song when I get home.

I was reading about it, hoping that it was the lead single to a new album. Whilst there's no announcement yet, it seems that the song was produced by Nigel Godrich and used the same band members as on some of his best albums, so hopefully this is a sign of a new album to come.

 

[Coatigan]

So a question for the posters who like this album which is fine but how do the new Jazz bands stack up to this?

On another tangent I have just put on the New Music thread the new one from Beck.
In Sea Change mode on it

How new are we talking?

 

[It Started With A Miss]

How new are we talking?

Ezra Collective ,Sons Of Kemet etc.
I've always steered clear of Jazz as I always thought it was a load of blokes playing a different song at the same time but thats probably my ignorance.
Over the last couple of years I've got into GoGo Penguin and that's regarded as Modern Jazz but with a twist with some electronics thrown in.

 

[threespires]

So a question for the posters who like this album which is fine but how do the new Jazz bands stack up to this?

On another tangent I have just put on the New Music thread the new one from Beck.
In Sea Change mode on it

Ezra Collective ,Sons Of Kemet etc.
I've always steered clear of Jazz as I always thought it was a load of blokes playing a different song at the same time but thats probably my ignorance.
Over the last couple of years I've got into GoGo Penguin and that's regarded as Modern Jazz but with a twist with some electronics thrown in.

I don't know if there's any of the regular posters here who listen to lots of modern jazz or would consider themselves aficionados. Failing that, and on the basis I gave this a top score and do own a bit of later jazz I'll have a crack at answering the question though the answer is probably no different to other genres but I'll come back to that.

I think I mentioned Don Ellis in my review but there was also another couple of more recent artists I also thought about when I was mentally trawling my record collection, them being Brad Mehidau and the Esbjorn Svensson Trio but you've mentioned GoGo Penguin and literally in the last few weeks I've got into them a bit off the back of going down a rathole about recording of drums in relation to one of my 96 picks to come in the Rock and Roll Evolution thread. My caveat is that I've only really listened to v2.0 to any great extent so if that's not indicative of their wider catalogue I might be miles off base.

Anyway I think you'd call GoGo Penguin very jazz influenced but as you say there's other stuff going on. Be that as it may what I like about both Time Out and v2.0 are ultimately the same thing: that they groove. They groove in pretty different ways but both do it without you having to 'know' stuff to enjoy them.

Two things I particularly like about Time Out is that it kind of shows you what its doing without forcing it down your throat so it grooves in a relaxed way. Also the way Paul Desmond's sax improvisations float over isn't an nice to have for me it's integral to the songs and makes them imo more accessible, when he plays behind the beat it has a little bit of swing and manages to accentuate the groove rather than take from it.

In contrast I think v2.0 is more about a metronomic groove, there's no swinging, no lilt to the rhythm, it locks in the groove and then adds stuff to it. So a track like Garden Dog Barbecue grooves harder and faster and I like it a lot and certainly it sounds more 'modern'. Even though it's all (I think?) human made music, it has that precision repetition and more of a minimalist vibe that makes it sound like electronic music even when technically it's not. When I read about the drums on it I think they composed them using software and then recorded them all pretty much through performance? I was going to say very unjazz like, but I'm not sure that's 100% true. A track like To Drown in You has a much more austere vibe than the Time Out tracks and I wonder if that is what makes it feel more modern? Tangentially I wonder what @RobMCFC would make of them?

But I don't think it's an either/or. If I feel like I want something that I can skip to then it'll be the Dave Brubeck album and if I want something a bit more hardcore and metronomic that I can really get down into, then I can listen to v2.0. Both are propelled by their rhythms but can serve different moods and times and places.

In terms of a link between the two, from my limited knowledge I would say someone like the Esbjorn Svensson Trio who I think are definitely considered jazz are a band who are relatable to from both ends. A track (and album too) that feels like a link to me would be Strange Place For Snow - from the bits of GoGo Penguin i've listen too, EST would be their full on jazz cousins.

Ultimately whether the likes of EST or GoGo Penguin owe a debt to the Dave Brubeck Quartet and/or have in some way overtaken is irrelevant to me if they are all enjoyable to listen to. The Jerry Lee Lewis album reviewed pretty well on here despite it being a template for rock and roll that was 'superseded' in many different ways but people found virtues in it. I think some people tend towards being restless souls who want to see progress and some of us are a bit conservative and like stuff that feels timeless to them, but most of us vary that view as the mood takes them.

Edit: I've just checked and Strange Place For Snow is nearly 25 years old! I'm becoming an FOC.

Whilst we're on the subject have I imagined it or have we discussed The Bad Plus on here before?

 

[Coatigan]

Ezra Collective ,Sons Of Kemet etc.
I've always steered clear of Jazz as I always thought it was a load of blokes playing a different song at the same time but thats probably my ignorance.
Over the last couple of years I've got into GoGo Penguin and that's regarded as Modern Jazz but with a twist with some electronics thrown in.

Ok so, within the last couple of decades new. Think all of the above have some sort of 'fusion', and that seems to be where modern-ish jazz has gone. And in no way is this meant to be a slight, as those bands are great and doing well for it, championong a genre and selling shows to people with almost no interest in it. But as a comparison you raise, this album is cleaner, purer and 'gimmick-free'. Albeit perhaps in its own day, the Time being Out may in itself have been seen as a gimmick.

Jazz seems to have this obsessive compulsion to constantly be seen to innovate. But there are bands/artists that do it without that, through pure quality, ambition and intensity. And within the 'recent' bracket as above, ones of note for me are The Bad Plus, still smashing out top albums, driven by pure intensity and grit. The Portico Quartet too (previously considerend nominating their Knee Deep in the North Sea album) and the late Esbjorn Svensson's albums are easily overlooked. And then for something less strictly jazz, but jazz-y in some ways, the Budos Band are great. Had an album (V) on here some time ago.

This album was a great nomination either way, but will get to that later.

Edit I see spires has beaten me to it, and gone with EST as well. Brad Mehldau a good mention too.

 

[threespires]

Ok so, within the last couple of decades new. Think all of the above have some sort of 'fusion', and that seems to be where modern-ish jazz has gone. And in no way is this meant to be a slight, as those bands are great and doing well for it, championong a genre and selling shows to people with almost no interest in it. But as a comparison you raise, this album is cleaner, purer and 'gimmick-free'. Albeit perhaps in its own day, the Time being Out may in itself have been seen as a gimmick.

Jazz seems to have this obsessive compulsion to constantly be seen to innovate. But there are bands/artists that do it without that, through pure quality, ambition and intensity. And within the 'recent' bracket as above, ones of note for me are The Bad Plus, still smashing out top albums, driven by pure intensity and grit. The Portico Quartet too (previously considerend nominating their Knee Deep in the North Sea album) and the late Esbjorn Svensson's albums are easily overlooked. And then for something less strictly jazz, but jazz-y in some ways, the Budos Band are great. Had an album (V) on here some time ago.

This album was a great nomination either way, but will get to that later.

Edit I see spires has beaten me to it, and gone with EST as well. Brad Mehldau a good mention too.

One day we should walk out to The Bad Plus's version of Blue Moon. Especially against the rags, dippers orarse; a not so subtle message that we're playing a different game to them.

 

[GornikDaze]

I don't know if there's any of the regular posters here who listen to lots of modern jazz or would consider themselves aficionados. Failing that, and on the basis I gave this a top score and do own a bit of later jazz I'll have a crack at answering the question though the answer is probably no different to other genres but I'll come back to that.

I think I mentioned Don Ellis in my review but there was also another couple of more recent artists I also thought about when I was mentally trawling my record collection, them being Brad Mehidau and the Esbjorn Svensson Trio but you've mentioned GoGo Penguin and literally in the last few weeks I've got into them a bit off the back of going down a rathole about recording of drums in relation to one of my 96 picks to come in the Rock and Roll Evolution thread. My caveat is that I've only really listened to v2.0 to any great extent so if that's not indicative of their wider catalogue I might be miles off base.

Anyway I think you'd call GoGo Penguin very jazz influenced but as you say there's other stuff going on. Be that as it may what I like about both Time Out and v2.0 are ultimately the same thing: that they groove. They groove in pretty different ways but both do it without you having to 'know' stuff to enjoy them.

Two things I particularly like about Time Out is that it kind of shows you what its doing without forcing it down your throat so it grooves in a relaxed way. Also the way Paul Desmond's sax improvisations float over isn't an nice to have for me it's integral to the songs and makes them imo more accessible, when he plays behind the beat it has a little bit of swing and manages to accentuate the groove rather than take from it.

In contrast I think v2.0 is more about a metronomic groove, there's no swinging, no lilt to the rhythm, it locks in the groove and then adds stuff to it. So a track like Garden Dog Barbecue grooves harder and faster and I like it a lot and certainly it sounds more 'modern'. Even though it's all (I think?) human made music, it has that precision repetition and more of a minimalist vibe that makes it sound like electronic music even when technically it's not. When I read about the drums on it I think they composed them using software and then recorded them all pretty much through performance? I was going to say very unjazz like, but I'm not sure that's 100% true. A track like To Drown in You has a much more austere vibe than the Time Out tracks and I wonder if that is what makes it feel more modern? Tangentially I wonder what @RobMCFC would make of them?

But I don't think it's an either/or. If I feel like I want something that I can skip to then it'll be the Dave Brubeck album and if I want something a bit more hardcore and metronomic that I can really get down into, then I can listen to v2.0. Both are propelled by their rhythms but can serve different moods and times and places.

In terms of a link between the two, from my limited knowledge I would say someone like the Esbjorn Svensson Trio who I think are definitely considered jazz are a band who are relatable to from both ends. A track (and album too) that feels like a link to me would be Strange Place For Snow - from the bits of GoGo Penguin i've listen too, EST would be their full on jazz cousins.

Ultimately whether the likes of EST or GoGo Penguin owe a debt to the Dave Brubeck Quartet and/or have in some way overtaken is irrelevant to me if they are all enjoyable to listen to. The Jerry Lee Lewis album reviewed pretty well on here despite it being a template for rock and roll that was 'superseded' in many different ways but people found virtues in it. I think some people tend towards being restless souls who want to see progress and some of us are a bit conservative and like stuff that feels timeless to them, but most of us vary that view as the mood takes them.

Edit: I've just checked and Strange Place For Snow is nearly 25 years old! I'm becoming an FOC.

Whilst we're on the subject have I imagined it or have we discussed The Bad Plus on here before?

What he said!

 

[OB1]

Take Five is obviously a classic and a huge slice of nostalgia.

The music generally is what I would describe as dinner party music (not that I’m a dinner party regular) but that is not meant to be disparaging.

I am not into jazz but am often quite happy to listen to it if I am somewhere it is playing.

This album is an enjoyable listen and I’ll go 7.5/10.

 

[Keith Moon]

Now dig this, cats — Joe Morello. ’Nuff said. That’s a solid ten.

 

[Keith Moon]

I don't know if there's any of the regular posters here who listen to lots of modern jazz or would consider themselves aficionados. Failing that, and on the basis I gave this a top score and do own a bit of later jazz I'll have a crack at answering the question though the answer is probably no different to other genres but I'll come back to that.

I think I mentioned Don Ellis in my review but there was also another couple of more recent artists I also thought about when I was mentally trawling my record collection, them being Brad Mehidau and the Esbjorn Svensson Trio but you've mentioned GoGo Penguin and literally in the last few weeks I've got into them a bit off the back of going down a rathole about recording of drums in relation to one of my 96 picks to come in the Rock and Roll Evolution thread. My caveat is that I've only really listened to v2.0 to any great extent so if that's not indicative of their wider catalogue I might be miles off base.

Anyway I think you'd call GoGo Penguin very jazz influenced but as you say there's other stuff going on. Be that as it may what I like about both Time Out and v2.0 are ultimately the same thing: that they groove. They groove in pretty different ways but both do it without you having to 'know' stuff to enjoy them.

Two things I particularly like about Time Out is that it kind of shows you what its doing without forcing it down your throat so it grooves in a relaxed way. Also the way Paul Desmond's sax improvisations float over isn't an nice to have for me it's integral to the songs and makes them imo more accessible, when he plays behind the beat it has a little bit of swing and manages to accentuate the groove rather than take from it.

In contrast I think v2.0 is more about a metronomic groove, there's no swinging, no lilt to the rhythm, it locks in the groove and then adds stuff to it. So a track like Garden Dog Barbecue grooves harder and faster and I like it a lot and certainly it sounds more 'modern'. Even though it's all (I think?) human made music, it has that precision repetition and more of a minimalist vibe that makes it sound like electronic music even when technically it's not. When I read about the drums on it I think they composed them using software and then recorded them all pretty much through performance? I was going to say very unjazz like, but I'm not sure that's 100% true. A track like To Drown in You has a much more austere vibe than the Time Out tracks and I wonder if that is what makes it feel more modern? Tangentially I wonder what @RobMCFC would make of them?

But I don't think it's an either/or. If I feel like I want something that I can skip to then it'll be the Dave Brubeck album and if I want something a bit more hardcore and metronomic that I can really get down into, then I can listen to v2.0. Both are propelled by their rhythms but can serve different moods and times and places.

In terms of a link between the two, from my limited knowledge I would say someone like the Esbjorn Svensson Trio who I think are definitely considered jazz are a band who are relatable to from both ends. A track (and album too) that feels like a link to me would be Strange Place For Snow - from the bits of GoGo Penguin i've listen too, EST would be their full on jazz cousins.

Ultimately whether the likes of EST or GoGo Penguin owe a debt to the Dave Brubeck Quartet and/or have in some way overtaken is irrelevant to me if they are all enjoyable to listen to. The Jerry Lee Lewis album reviewed pretty well on here despite it being a template for rock and roll that was 'superseded' in many different ways but people found virtues in it. I think some people tend towards being restless souls who want to see progress and some of us are a bit conservative and like stuff that feels timeless to them, but most of us vary that view as the mood takes them.

Edit: I've just checked and Strange Place For Snow is nearly 25 years old! I'm becoming an FOC.

Whilst we're on the subject have I imagined it or have we discussed The Bad Plus on here before?

A tip: after Esbjorn’s death, EST’s bassist formed a new band called Tonbruket — they’re fantastic.

 

[journolud]

Jazz, you either love it or you hate it don't you? Either that or... no, I've done that one.

We used to have a band in Macclesfield called the Hot Bananas who did a song, unless I'm very much mistaken, called I Like Jazz. I tried to find it on Youtube but to no avail. Anyway, I guess the point of that, if there is one at all, is that it''s possible to like Jazz without loving it. Come to think of it we used to have a band called the Jazz Mags as well but I'm not sure that was anything to do with Jazz. They were great though.

I liked Blue Rondo a la Turk as an opener but even on a few listens can't really say when it ended and Strange Meadow Lark began. Take Five is memorable.

I'm afraid the rest of it confirmed my preconceptions of jazz. It meandered pleasantly but also got fairly irritating at times which seems a bit harsh of me. I don't doubt that these guys were at the top of their game, people more knowledgeable and more in tune with jazz than me have said so, people who can probably tell the difference between this and anything in the background of some cheesy 1970s flick with a guy putting something on in his high rise flat as he gets ready to seduce the attractive but poorly characterised female lead.

I'm struggling with my self imposed rule not to score this less than 6. It's clearly not perfunctory or cynical and perhaps it's a measure of it's genius that it sounds to effortless, not the same as saying they haven't put any effort into it. But it does nothing much for me at all. I'd happily listen to Take Five again and I think it would make a great double A side with Green Onions, which of course was by somebody else altogether.

I could go on being barely relevant but instead I'll give it the 6 which is probably the least it deserves.