Henry Nowak murder

bert38 said:
The officer made that decision based on what information he had-rightly or as it turned out, wrongly. My point is officers have to make decisions -its not an automated process-once he made one erroneous decision the rest then followed..that's how things go badly. And he didn't know he was dying-it was probably the last thing on his mind..wrongly again as it turned out. But in those circumstances it likely wouldn't have crossed my mind-once I had skipped past his pleas..which the officer (wrongly) did. It was a catalogue of errors that will be unpicked.

Unconscious bias may have been a huge factor in those initial decisions that set of the sequence.

When I watched the footage last night my thoughts were in the cold light of day the throwaway comment made by the officer dismissing the plea that he had been stabbed looks and sounds awful-and the officer will reflect on that for the rest of his life. That remark gives insight into a path of decisions that he had made and went onto make.

I also questioned whether the use of handcuffs was proportional and necessary as the 'offender' (in the eyes of the officer) at that time posed little threat-but again, he has to justify that through his use of force form and statement, and it may been subjectively justified.

But I also thought that once they realised his health was rapidly deteriorating that they did react accordingly-calling for an ambulance and commencing CPR.

It went horribly wrong. No officer goes to work expecting things to go so catastrophically wrong. But I'm not ready for the pitchforks just yet.
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Sorry but you might think if a guy is on the floor and says 'I've been stabbed' a more apt response might be' Where mate' rather than I don't think so.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Yup, not sure where race comes into it. Some people love to bring race up. Its about time we all just stopped recognising someones race, we're all equal supposedly.

This stabbing and the police response seems shocking. Looks like some breakdown in police policy and procedure. Really fucks me off that guy died being handcuffed. If the coppers who did it are twats hopefully they dont get away with it (Like sometimes the police do). If they were following hardline police procedure then the policy makers need to answer.
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There isn't a book answer for everything-that's why policing is so unique-you have to equip officers with knowledge, they have to get the experience and then they are frequently left on their own to make critical decisions.

You usually take a side, make an arrest and then once the parties are separated, sort it all out-I know that's how I operated. You never expect it go wrong in this manner. Now how it ended up this way is for the IOPC and PSD to establish.

Does policing need a root and branch review of recruitment, selection and training? A review of pay and conditions? Probably so.The job is a lot harder than when I did it. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to do it frankly.
 
oldius said:
Once you treat this as a stabbing, and a stabbing only, the route to justice becomes so clear.
Investigation, charge, verdict, sentence; for the police too.
Anything else is simply noise, and often with political and/or racial undertones.
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I get your point and largely agree with it but the murderer raised the issue of race. They did so to escape accountability and probably calculated it would help them. Why?
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
I get your point and largely agree with it but the murderer raised the issue of race. They did so to escape accountability and probably calculated it would help them. Why?
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I will not be drawn into what was in a murderer's mind.
Firstly, any such thoughts would be an unproven hypothesis.
Secondly, it contradicts my earlier point.
 
balotellishaircut said:
I think this was a racist attack, just like the Stephen Lawrence murder. So the murderers race is important in this instance.
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The lads Dad disagrees with you. He's released a statement stating it has fuckall to do with race and is litterly fucked off with people trying to politise it. He's sat through the court proceedings.
 
Henry's father '“We want to use Henry’s heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to create further division, hatred or tension.”

Farage 'pure cold rage'.

That's the difference in quality of the person.

My thoughts are with Henry's family and the officers involved-their lives will never be the same.
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
I can’t see any racial motive. It seems he felt he was “disrespected” for being called a ‘bad man’.
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Obviously I don’t know for sure, but because the murderer brought up the race line whilst lying to the Police, did he kill Henry because of his race, I can’t really see no other reason.
 
bert38 said:
Henry's father '“We want to use Henry’s heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to create further division, hatred or tension.”

Farage 'pure cold rage'.

That's the difference in quality of the person.

My thoughts are with Henry's family and the officers involved-their lives will never be the same.
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Exactly. People should respect his wishes.
 
balotellishaircut said:
Obviously I don’t know for sure, but because the murderer brought up the race line whilst lying to the Police, did he kill Henry because of his race, I can’t really see no other reason.
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I’ve just given you one, which seems the most plausible in the circumstances to me. The only relevance is of race in this case is that the murderer calculated it would help them with the police post event. That’s something that needs to be explored as this all gets investigated
 
I see Tommy Ten Names is using this to further his online bollocks.

He’s organised a demo at Southampton police tonight. Ffs.
 
The blue phantom said:
The lads Dad disagrees with you. He's released a statement stating it has fuckall to do with race and is litterly fucked off with people trying to politise it. He's sat through the court proceedings.
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I’m not trying to politicise anything, I have friends of all creeds, colour and religion, but this is a forum and we can respectfully debate what we think happened without crossing a line.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
I see Tommy Ten Names is using this to further his online bollocks.

He’s organised a demo at Southampton police tonight. Ffs.
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Same every time. Something horrific happens and all the usual suspects are instantly out to make it all about them. They couldn't give two shits about the poor lad who was murdered, it's all about them.
 
balotellishaircut said:
Obviously I don’t know for sure, but because the murderer brought up the race line whilst lying to the Police, did he kill Henry because of his race, I can’t really see no other reason.
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Who knows what his motive was? One thing I think we can all agree on is that he probably played the race card in a desperate attempt to get away with carrying out such a horrific murder. Murdering cunts usually come up with all manner of pathetic excuses as to why they did it and this is no exception
 
iqjatt said:
Now look i agree that this guy vikrum did the wrong thing (he murdered him) and is getting punished for it. He shouldn't have had a sword out there and stabbed Henry. For this i agree he should be getting a 21 year sentence and everything. But what i don't get is why is everyone saying it wasn't a race related issue or the murderer is lying about it etc.. from bodycam it looks like to me there was a racist issue, he's got his hair open clearly his turbans been knocked off something has happened between them that led to the altercation.
Or is the implication that this vikrum was a madman and just started swinging at Henry because he saw him down the street and wanted to kill him for no reason other than that he was white??

I'm saying that Vikrum was wrong here that he stabbed Henry but he has been punished for it...so what else do you want from the police or from the justice system?
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The victim had the killer on Snapchat calling him a bad man (it’s kids slang). The killer then said ‘I’m a bad man’ and seemingly stabbed him.

The killer says that the victim knocked his turban off. No one knows if that’s true but given the conclusions the court came to as to his credibility I’m not sure I’m inclined to believe him. The judge concluded it might have been dislodged in a scuffle.

The killer went on to video the victim as he lay dying.

You should read the sentencing remarks as they provide the best account of what likely happened.

EDIT: just to add, on this bit:

“ But what i don't get is why is everyone saying it wasn't a race related issue or the murderer is lying about it etc.. from bodycam it looks like to me there was a racist issue, he's got his hair open clearly his turbans been knocked off something has happened between them that led to the altercation.”

You seem to be implying that the victim racially abused the killer. There’s absolutely no evidence of that at all and it also formed part of a defence which was roundly rejected by the jury.
 
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bert38 said:
The officer made that decision based on what information he had-rightly or as it turned out, wrongly. My point is officers have to make decisions -its not an automated process-once he made one erroneous decision the rest then followed..that's how things go badly. And he didn't know he was dying-it was probably the last thing on his mind..wrongly again as it turned out. But in those circumstances it likely wouldn't have crossed my mind-once I had skipped past his pleas..which the officer (wrongly) did. It was a catalogue of errors that will be unpicked.

Unconscious bias may have been a huge factor in those initial decisions that set of the sequence.

When I watched the footage last night my thoughts were in the cold light of day the throwaway comment made by the officer dismissing the plea that he had been stabbed looks and sounds awful-and the officer will reflect on that for the rest of his life. That remark gives insight into a path of decisions that he had made and went onto make.

I also questioned whether the use of handcuffs was proportional and necessary as the 'offender' (in the eyes of the officer) at that time posed little threat-but again, he has to justify that through his use of force form and statement, and it may been subjectively justified.

But I also thought that once they realised his health was rapidly deteriorating that they did react accordingly-calling for an ambulance and commencing CPR.

It went horribly wrong. No officer goes to work expecting things to go so catastrophically wrong. But I'm not ready for the pitchforks just yet.
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Agree the officer sounds kind rather than angry and his assessment was wrong but improved training, recruitment or both ?. he made the wrong initial decision and it leads to a catalogue of mistakes
 
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