Liverpool Thread | 2025/26 | Iraola becomes unlikeable (p397)

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Annoyingly good appointment in my eyes. Still a lot of work for the dippers to do with that squad but if they get the right players I expect him to have them competing above their level. In true cultist fashion, they're already trying to claim him as a lifelong dipper because they reportedly once considered signing him as a player.
 
Interesting discussion earlier in the week on the MNC.

Discussing managers who make the move from a small / medium club in the English league to one of the top 5 / 6 clubs.

Basically, the last one to have any sort of joy was Bodgers, ironically to the Dippers, and even that fizzled out very quickly.
 
ysmsa said:
Interesting discussion earlier in the week on the MNC.

Discussing managers who make the move from a small / medium club in the English league to one of the top 5 / 6 clubs.

Basically, the last one to have any sort of joy was Bodgers, ironically to the Dippers, and even that fizzled out very quickly.
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Wasn’t he there 5 years
 
blue_danube said:
But you're missing the point. Fans of other clubs alwaya call opponents massive cheats. Plenty of people have called city players massive cheats and will continue to call the whole club cheats until the charges stuff is cleared up.

What makes you more right than them?

You're simply just another fan calling rivals cheats..there's hundreds of you on every clubs forums calling opponents cheats, depending on who their target is.


Actually let's look at it another way. How much cheating makes a team not great? How do we quantify it?

We can all agree every team uses simulation/cheating to look for fouls right? So that includes city to. So if we say any cheating rules out greatness, then that rules out city and every other team.

So where's the threshold? What's the cut off point? Let's say in your eyes that Liverpool were massive 100% cheats so they cannot be great, can you cheat maybe 70% of what Liverpool did and be great? 50%? 30?% - it's all cheating at the end of the day, therefore it should diminish perceived greatness across the board. So considering every team does it to a degree, including city, then your logic around Liverpool also has to apply to us. Even if you think we were only 20% as bad as Liverpool for it, you have to also downplay our greatness. It's all relative.

So are you saying any cheating means you aren't great? Or you're allowed to cheat a bit? Maybe 50% of what Salah did is ok but anymore than that isn't? What's your scale?
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That's a fairly stupid question, how do you quantify something subjective? I think Coldplay are shit but how do you put a percentage on that? Are they 72% shit? 62% shit? Percentages don't work like that. Same way you can't say all teams are great unless they hit your personal threshold of 78.67% cheating level, it makes no sense.
I look at patterns of behaviour; do a number of players in a team go down easily or is it just one or two that take advantage of situations. Do players in a team look to initiate contact then throw themselves over or does the odd player occasionally make the most of contact.
It's the same as how people look at a team and can say if they're an attacking team or a defensive team, whether a team plays through the wings or the centre more, or if a player has a good eye for a pass or doesn't. All these things can be seen by watchers without quantifying it as they are subjective metrics (although these arent quite the same thing as they can be measured by stats but you're generally able to get a feel for them by watching). You don't say all teams play attacking football as all teams are attempting to get the ball in the net when some teams are clearly and obviously more defensive minded.
Your way of saying everybody cheats therefore everybody is the same is like saying Christian Negouai is as good as Kevin De Bruyne as they both could pass the ball to a teammate. Doing something once or twice is very different to doing something over and over again, this is the same whether it's something worthwhile or something underhand.
What other fans say is largely the same thing, are there general consistent complaints throughout a season about a teams 'dark arts' or is ot just people complaining in the emotional comedown after a match? Are there multiple memes about Varchester City and multiple video compilations made by fans of various teams of the number of dives and shithousery like there are about Liverpool under Klopp or, latterly, Arsenal in the season just gone? No, there aren't the same as how there aren't for Everton, Bournemouth or whoever. Again, it's a pattern of behaviour.
Have IFAB or PGMOL had to change or clarify rules, such as 'just because there's contact doesn't mean it's a foul' after sustained complaints of diving by Liverpool from managers, players and fans of all teams or the new IFAB rulings around holding and blocking at corners as a direct result of Arsenal's cheating last year. Again sustained patterns of behaviour.
If you look at everything in black and white then nobody can be any good or bad, or saying that doing something once or twice is the same as doing something 50 times is too basic a way of looking at the world. By the same measure, people praising Bournemouth's attacking play aren't all automatically all wrong because some Southampton fan once complained that they were quite defensive in a game they watched, real life doesn't work like that.
The difference in our viewpoints is that although you have agreed that Liverpool cheated and benefited from cheating more than other teams under Klopp they could still play decent football so they were great, whereas I don't think they were a great team as they consistently used cheating as part of their game plan to be awarded pounts they didnt earn despite being able to play decent football when they wanted to.
Trying to say all teams cheat and all fans say everybody cheats therefore everybody is the same is a fools errand, as by that metric all teams are as entertaining as each other, all teams play in the same way, or all players are as good as each other. It doesn't work like that, you have to look at patterns of behaviour over time and learn the difference between sustained complaints from fans and the generalised post-match whining. Unless you think Arsenal were an exciting, attacking team last season as a West Ham fan once said Nigel De Jong used to like a tackle therefore we can't possibly say Arsenal played in an overly physical thuggish way as "all fans say that about other teams".
 
Lkzerinho said:
Only a Two year deal? I get why he would want 2 year deals at Bournemouth so he could easily make the jump to a bigger club, but only signing a two year deal at a club like Liverpool would not make me optimistic as a Liverpool fan.

Do you think he can get this team, that is completely depleted at Center Back, needs midfield reinforcements and has a ton of questions in attack, playing the way her wants and competing inside of a year? I highly doubt it especially with that squad.

And after this upcoming year, you would need to make a decision as to if you are going to extend him based on one year. This feels like he didn't get the move he wanted and he's taking a better job to keep his name relevant to get to a bigger job eventually.
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It probably makes sense from Liverpool's side of things though as they won't be paying out huge compensation to him and his team if it doesn't work out.
 
blue_danube said:
@danielwood5

Still waiting for you to tell me about your threshold/scale for when cheating becomes acceptable

Your replies were rather quick before but I think I've tied you in knots here and it all went quiet
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Hahaha. When you grow up you'll learnt hat people have jobs, commitments and social lives so aren't at the constant beck and call of randoms on the internet.
Honestly, you dont have the cogent arguments, nuanced worldview, pattern recognition skills or, frankly, the level of intellect to warrant this level of arrogance.
"Tied you in knots" hahahahaha, more like I should have heeded the age old advice of "never argue with an idiot as they'll drag you down to their level and beat you on experience"
Do better.
 
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