Pellegrini Thread

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adrianr said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
adrianr said:
The old Arsenal trick. Often the only team still left in all four competitions, then drop out of all of them in the space of a month.

Regardless of groundwork for future success, we really should be looking to win at least the League cup now. It would be the least this team deserves for the football it's produced. I'd be amazed if any side that has scored as many as we have at this point hasn't gone on to win the league too, but based on the grounds we still have to visit I'm cautiously still typical City on that one.. That said, on the subject of fine margins, wins at Spurs away and Chelsea at home would probably swing the pendulum so far in our favour our competition may just start to slip away.


I agree entirely.

It is more of a concern that the goodwill towards Pellegrini, from some, has been a little late in the day.

Less than three months ago there were pathetic threads posted on this forum calling him an old tosspot, Txiki and Soriano were destroying us from within.

That fickleness has to be replaced by a clear understanding of what Pellegrini's aims are, regardless of 0-4 trophies.

For the record, I think we will do two and desperate for one to be the league.

The league is always the priority for me.. Maybe when we've won it ten times I'll start shifting to the CL but there's nothing better than topping every team in the country over the course of a season.

A league and league cup double would have me so delirious I'd probably wonder in front of a bus.

That's more or less where it's at for me. I'd rather win the league than two domestic trophies. But given the choice of the champs league or premier league I think i would take the champs.

I see almost no chance of four, a tiny chance of 3 and an entirely realistic chance of 2. Which would be just fine and dandy for me, thank you very much. And if it were one trophy and it was the premier league then id be well happy too.
 
I have to say he is sweeping away my doubts - the football is of another stratophere. I was worried about his lack of success in Europe and that maybe the boat had sailed re titles, trophies. He still needs to break that duck but when (and I would now emphasise WHEN) he wins his first trophy he could be unstoppable. Of course he´ll have to contend with the ego and Whinger but he seems unflappable at the moment

Manuel - you ain´t no "dud" !!! More humble pie I´m afraid!!! I have no problem being proved wrong !!
 
adrianr said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As long as people are able to reconcile that we can go from a quad to nada in the space of a few weeks, such are the fine margins.

Pellegrini is putting something in place that isn't about the here and now, but something which will stand us in fine stead for years to come on the trophy front.

This time last year, United were also being touted for a quad, it was stupid talk, and so it is now.

Pellegrini is the man who is giving City an identity, not a quick fix.

The old Arsenal trick. Often the only team still left in all four competitions, then drop out of all of them in the space of a month.

Regardless of groundwork for future success, we really should be looking to win at least the League cup now. It would be the least this team deserves for the football it's produced. I'd be amazed if any side that has scored as many as we have at this point hasn't gone on to win the league too, but based on the grounds we still have to visit I'm cautiously still typical City on that one.. That said, on the subject of fine margins, wins at Spurs away and Chelsea at home would probably swing the pendulum so far in our favour our competition may just start to slip away.

Been thinking about the “tough away games”. Come to the conclusion that i don’t think it’s a bad thing.
There is no easy away game in the premier league regardless of who you are playing – but i think there are easy home games.
I’d rather have an easy run of home fixtures and pretty much guarantee a good points haul from them.
Then, to be honest, whether you’re playing arsenal etc at home or away it’s going to be a tough game .

I think the victories we have already bagged at home against our main rivals will be what clinches us the title.
 
I think if we could win the League Cup, that would be a big boost for our prospects of taking the title as well - as they say, success breeds success. Ultimately, though, if we face a one-off game against United, even though we're a much better side than them this season, there's also the concern that they could raise themselves in what would effectively be a season-defining occasion for them. On the other hand, what a great opportunity to lay down a marker if we do play them in a Cup final (I'd rather face the Mackems but I suspect it will be the Rags). I'm sure our lads will appreciate that as well, and we've tended to perform well against them in the last few meetings.

Winning the league again would be fantastic. I don't think we'll be far off, either, but I have a nagging worry about Chelsea. I've been quite impressed by Arsenal this year, but I'm not quite as concerned about them right now. But anyway, as I mentioned above, I think we're very nicely set for the future even if things don't quite go for us in the next four months,
 
petrusha said:
I wouldn't normally do this but as I've been asked for it - below are 2K words I produced in early March 2013 on the prospect of a City managerial change. I've deleted the name of the poster whose views I was challenging because I don't want this to seem like a 'told you so' post. In any case, I was more qualified and cautious about Manuel than I would be now, and whereas then I'd have opted for Mourinho if I'd been deciding on Roberto's replacement, now I'm quite glad that Txiki didn't do so.

Thanks for the kind words of a few posters above, too.

With respect, I disagree that [a poster who had questioned Pellgrini's track record] is on the money. He dismisses Pellegrini's stint at Real in a single sentence, saying it "doesn't inspire confidence". In fact, while Real may have failed in the Cups in Pellegrini's only season there, they gained what at the time was the club's record points haul in La Liga. They lost out on the title because what was rated by many as the best club team ever did slightly better. I'd suggest that in terms of showing his ability to handle the spotlight and the pressure, he actually came out of it very well.

In my opinion, it's disingenuous to characterise him as someone who can run a corner shop while Mancini can run Tesco. It's worth noting that he's taken charge of big teams in different South American leagues and won trophies with them all. And let's put his time at Real into some kind of perspective: if Barca had been forcibly relegated for breaches of the rules and Real awarded the title after that season, then been able to buy two top Barca players on the cheap to reinforce their new found dominance, maybe we'd be speaking of his record at Real in the same terms as posters on here laud Mancini's successes at Inter.

I appreciate that Mancini had improved Inter before that first title was awarded. But then Pellegrini in his only season improved Real's points haul by 18 points compared to the previous year, moulding into an effective team a disparate, unbalanced squad full of big egos that resulted from a ridiculously haphazard recruitment policy beyond his control.

So Pellegrini is a coach who's performed well (or better than that) wherever he's been, has a reputation for playing attractive football and for being a highly astute tactician. He has experience of being at probably the biggest club in the world. I'm not arguing that he's in the same league as Mourinho in terms of giving us the same trophy-winning potential that Jose would, but he deserves a bit more respect than he's being shown on here, in my view.

However, none of this addresses the context, which is that Txiki Begiristain will play a key role in what happens here. If anyone doubts Txiki's pedigree, read Graham Hunter's Barca, the account of the development of that club over the first decade of the current century. It paints our DoF in an extremely positive light, as the architect in may ways of the current football phenomenon at the Catalan club. He's been recruited by City not to produce a copy of Barca but to create a sustainable model for ongoing success that fits our own club, so we can't expect everything he did to be slavishly replicated. However, the way he went about his job at Barca is obviously going to be a good guide.

In his excellent book, Hunter calls Txiki "robust" and "football bright". The writer then goes on to say that Begiristain has: "... a profile and appetite which will one day adapt perfectly to a leading club in the Premier League - if they are ready to embrace a top-to-bottom conversion in the scouting, coaching and education of their young players". City certainly are willing to embrace that, and we'd have a different DoF if we weren't.

However, having the right first team coach is also crucial. A year ago, Chelsea were reportedly very keen to recruit Begiristain, mainly, it seems, because they thought his presence would persuade Pep Guardiola to take the manager's job. This is what Txiki said last April: "It's not enough to have a technical director who only deals with the academy and grassroots work. He's also got to be able to influence the first team as well and be able to take the vision forward. It's pointless having a technical director getting the grassroots football to go in one direction and develop a style of play if the first-team coach does not agree with those ideas."

Now, I think it's reasonable to suppose that Txiki is at City and not at Chelsea because we'll meet those conditions in which he wants to work. In other words, while the Sheikh (advised by Simon Pearce and Khaldoon, in particular) will make a final decision on the manager, I believe we can expect Txiki to have a major input. (This, of course, assumes that they remain resolved to go down the route of backing Txiki to restructure the entire football operation at the club with a view to serving the long-term interests).

I’ll nail my colours to the mast here: I don’t think Mancini will take us forward from here. I like him, and think he’s the best manager we’ve had since I started watching City in 1975 (actually, I’d probably bracket him together with Howard Kendall). I’m grateful for what he’s done for us. To nick and adapt a line I loved from David Lacey of The Guardian in his report on England’s 5-1 win over the German’s in Munich, just as Bogart and Bergman will always have Paris, so we and Mancini will always have Wembley in April and May 2011, Old Trafford in October 2011, and that amazing day in May 2012.

However, in my view, since approximately Christmas 2011, when other teams started to work out how better to stifle our attacking play, Roberto has shown no real sign of finding a solution to that. (We’re now talking about well over a year in which the glittering form of August to December 2011 has largely been but a distant and flickering memory, which makes that the exception rather than the rule under Mancini). I’m also in the camp that disagrees with those who state he’ll suddenly start to prosper in the Champions League if only he’s given more opportunities to do so. I wouldn’t necessarily berate him for failing to make the knockout stages this season in view of the opponents we faced in our group, but to me it says it all that we didn’t win a single game, taking a single point from an Ajax outfit easily dispatched twice by both Dortmund and Madrid. Nor do I think we can say that, on our performances, the results flattered our opponents.

As an aside, let me note here that I utterly loathe the Champions League: I see it as a tedious, overhyped, bloated wankfest of a tournament that has enriched a small number of big European clubs at the expense of other footballing competitions and while damaging other teams outside the self-serving elite. Nonetheless, it’s crucial to City that we start to do much better than we have in the last couple of years. This applies in terms of the owners’ ambitions, in terms of our prestige and thus ability to attract high class players to join us, and most importantly in terms of the financial considerations now that the era of Financial ‘Fair’ Play is upon us.

I also believe that the stability argument is misplaced here. The received wisdom seems to be that a change in manager also inevitably results in a major overhaul of the playing staff. We, though, are set to have one anyway if reports are to be believed. FFP arguably dictates that overpaid squad members will need to be moved on, which means that this summer would be an ideal time to make a change if there’s one to be made in the next couple of years.

Let’s for a moment here accept my hypothesis a few paragraphs back that the recruitment of Txiki suggests a willingness on the part of the board and owner to be persuaded by any recommendations he may make with regard to the manager’s position. The question is whether Txiki will see Mancini as someone he can work with bearing in mind the remit that the DoF has been given. Obviously here we’re into the realms of guesswork, but my conjecture is that he’ll see Roberto as a fit in terms of the style of football. Save for a few months at the back end of 2011, I suspect that the default method under the Italian will have been too one-paced and ponderous. Nor do I believe that Txiki will see Mancini as someone whose strength will lie in bringing through whatever kids we decide are worth a crack (maybe Guidetti or Rekkik if he improves on his current form away on loan).

Moreover, if Txiki doesn’t believe in Roberto and wants to bring in his own man, then this is the ideal time. In effect, he has an excuse. We’re currently a long way behind United in the league and have regressed in points terms compared to last season. Notwithstanding an absolute woman of a draw, failing to win a single game in Europe was a pretty pitiful effort. In other words, he has an excuse now: if he wants to strike, the iron is probably hot enough. Of course I may be wrong because I don’t have a hotline to Txiki’s thoughts but, in my view, those on here who are suggesting that Mancini is clearly safe at this stage are allowing their hearts to rule their heads.

I’ll nail another set of colours to the mast. If I were in Txiki’s position, I’d go all out to recruit Mourinho. I’ve no doubt that Jose wouldn’t be ideal either in terms of our DoF’s blueprint. However, I consider that the Portuguese offers a potential for success that could electrify our project. Mancini, with his relative failure to answer the way teams have nullified us for more than a year and his underwhelming career record in the Champions League, doesn’t in my view have a compelling case for Txiki to compromise his way of doing things because of what he’ll win us: I’ve no doubt we’d continue to qualify for the CL automatically under him and maybe snatch the odd Cup. However, if Txiki doesn’t view Roberto as the man to put in motion the implementation of the long-term plan, then I don’t see that there’s an argument that the Italian will guarantee short-term success. If you want short-term success, Jose’s your go-to guy.

Of course, Txiki has passed Jose over once before. Those were different circumstances, but maybe he’ll decide to do so again because he sees City’s interests as being served by developing the club in a different way. Personally, based all the reading and research I’ve been able to do, I’m delighted to have Txiki at City. My belief is that, if we all gather together in ten years’ time and see where the club is then, we’ll be glad we hired him. For me, if he eases Mancini through the exit door and if he passes on the chance to mount a serious pursuit of Mourinho as a replacement, then in both cases his track record would make me trust his judgment.

It’s worth looking at the two managerial appointments that Txiki was instrumental in driving at Barca. Both were outstanding successes, and illustrate that he’s not afraid of making picks that other people would consider highly questionable. Not only that, but was vindicated in spectacular fashion on each occasion.

In 2003, Txiki came on board as part of a new regime at a club that had just failed even to qualify for the CL and was losing money hand over fist. Frank Rijkaard was named as new manager. His track record was taking Holland to the semis in Euro 2000 with a squad that also reached the last four of the 1998 World Cup under Guus Hiddink, then being relegated with Sparta Rotterdam in his only season in club football. Post-Barca, he was sacked by Galatasaray early in his second season with the club in mid table, having failed to make the CL the previous campaign. He’s recently been fired by Saudi Arabia, having crashed out of the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup. But at Barca he won La Liga twice as well as the Champions League during his first three seasons.

In 2007, Txiki advised the Barca board that Rijkaard had, as the argot puts it, ‘lost the dressing room’ and should be replaced, but this didn’t happen for another year. When the change was finally made, it came down to a choice between Mourinho and a former Barca player whose entire coaching experience was a solitary year with the Barcelona B team. Admittedly, he achieved promotion with them, but it was from the Spanish fourth tier. He won a regionalised Catalan league comprising mainly village teams, and then a set of play offs against more village teams. Yet Txiki advocated picking him ahead of Mourinho, and Pep Guardiola’s subsequent trophy haul more than justified that decision.

I personally wouldn’t be surprised if we did go for Pellegrini, and in my opinion that would be a far better choice than people seem to believe. He’s a genuinely good manager, who performed well in his sole year inarguably club football’s biggest job. He was treated shabbily by Real Madrid but has shown his quality again at Malaga. He’d play attractive football, is a cultural fit with the ethos Txiki is seeking to instil and would fit with the DoF model. I’d personally quite excited by the idea of a squad remoulded by Txiki in the summer and coached by Pellegrini, though I appreciate I’m in a minority on this board in holding that view.

But whoever is in charge next season, I think we’ll have a squad that’s better equipped to challenge that we’ve had during this current season. Ultimately, too, with a very astute operator like Begiristain advising the board as to who should be manager, then whether it’s Mancini, Mourinho, Pellegrini or someone else, I’ll put aside my own prejudices and back the incumbent. I think Txiki’s record justifies our backing his assessment.

I seem to recall doing the 'managing a corner shop/Tesco' analogy.

First off, and I have said it enough times, I have no issue with Ferran & Txiki. For the board having F&T run things is a no brainer. The only real issue I had with Txiki was the total balls up over the way the managerial change was made. It was poorly handled and I expected better. I also think the board dropped a bollock with the way they tried/hoped to make a F&T and Roberto partnership 'work'. Accepting Roberto's resignation (which I will assume is true) would have been the smart move as it would have avoided having two separate camps trying to tun the show and wasting a year with everyone pulling in different directions.

Having listened to F&T at the NYC presser and the importance of the coach sharing their philosophy it again demonstrates why we do have Pellers and not Mancini/Mourinho/Benitez et al as it is F&T who dictate the philosophy and structure the squad accordingly. I'm a fan of the DoF model so again no issue from me.

On Pellers himself am liking the football but still believe that we are too open and too loose. I prefer it when we control games and have more structure to the team hence my preference for other coaches but that is a personal point of view. Our defending against Newcastle for example was very last ditch stuff at times but if we controlled the midfield better we would protect the back four better and everything would be less dramatic. Its the Scotty Parker vs Gareth Barry argument. I prefer the latter style of play and some prefer the former. Yes again with the analogies.

My issue with Pellers at the time was the lack of silverware and it still is. We play (at times) great football yet we are still 1 point behind Arsenal and only 1 point ahead of Chelsea who have been largely cack with no strikers worth mentioning. We have by far the best team/squad in the PL with Txiki making some great acquisitions in the summer bar Jovetic. (who may come good if he ever manages to get to a game). Edin had it spot on last night. This team/squad is the better than the title winning side with its key players in their 4th season together and with no ACON to distract us and Taggert out of the way the PL is/should be for the taking. Whether we do or not remains to be seen but its proving to be fascinating struggle as Jose frantically welds the plating to his battle tank and Wenger prays to the Gods of injuries and we for the love of mike keep conceding time and space in front of the fucking back four (end rant)...

So where was I? Ah yes. Is Pellers the man to lead us to glory or will he assume his customary role of most popular bridesmaid?

Well fuck knows. I can't call it but it has been enjoyable so whatever the outcome (and with the League Cup in the bag) I'll be philosophical if the outcome is us clutching a posy in our hands.
 
wireblue said:
adrianr said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As long as people are able to reconcile that we can go from a quad to nada in the space of a few weeks, such are the fine margins.

Pellegrini is putting something in place that isn't about the here and now, but something which will stand us in fine stead for years to come on the trophy front.

This time last year, United were also being touted for a quad, it was stupid talk, and so it is now.

Pellegrini is the man who is giving City an identity, not a quick fix.

The old Arsenal trick. Often the only team still left in all four competitions, then drop out of all of them in the space of a month.

Regardless of groundwork for future success, we really should be looking to win at least the League cup now. It would be the least this team deserves for the football it's produced. I'd be amazed if any side that has scored as many as we have at this point hasn't gone on to win the league too, but based on the grounds we still have to visit I'm cautiously still typical City on that one.. That said, on the subject of fine margins, wins at Spurs away and Chelsea at home would probably swing the pendulum so far in our favour our competition may just start to slip away.

Been thinking about the “tough away games”. Come to the conclusion that i don’t think it’s a bad thing.
There is no easy away game in the premier league regardless of who you are playing – but i think there are easy home games.
I’d rather have an easy run of home fixtures and pretty much guarantee a good points haul from them.
Then, to be honest, whether you’re playing arsenal etc at home or away it’s going to be a tough game .

I think the victories we have already bagged at home against our main rivals will be what clinches us the title.

I'm of that opinion as well. We have some tough aways but they are all going to be six pointers for both teams and there can be no doubt we are capable of coming home with all six points in a number of these. Keep up the home form and I believe these games will win us the title if we can keep key players fit.

As a note of caution, an injury to one or worse more of silva, yaya and/or fernandinho and our season could be badly derailed.
 
petrusha said:
I wouldn't normally do this but as I've been asked for it - below are 2K words I produced in early March 2013 on the prospect of a City managerial change. I've deleted the name of the poster whose views I was challenging because I don't want this to seem like a 'told you so' post. In any case, I was more qualified and cautious about Manuel than I would be now, and whereas then I'd have opted for Mourinho if I'd been deciding on Roberto's replacement, now I'm quite glad that Txiki didn't do so.

Thanks for the kind words of a few posters above, too.

I remember your original post and who you were replying to.

There was a time that I would have gone for Mou ahead of Manuel but I am glad we didn't. We may win less trophies as a result but I believe the spectacle along the way will make up for it; if indeed any compensation is required.

What is noticeable, is that the people who actually knew something about Pellegrini are slowly but surely being proved correct - a trend that I am optimistic will continue.

Billy touched on this the other day but we are looking more and more like Villareal in style (but with better players). You could see the players last night trying to emulate the "first team".

Also, last night Manny again mentioned post match that, in addition to scoring a bagful, we had kept a clean sheet. Manny wouldn't rather win games 4-3 than 1-0: he really wants to win 4-0 (or 5 or 6...).
 
Didsbury Dave said:
wireblue said:
adrianr said:
The old Arsenal trick. Often the only team still left in all four competitions, then drop out of all of them in the space of a month.

Regardless of groundwork for future success, we really should be looking to win at least the League cup now. It would be the least this team deserves for the football it's produced. I'd be amazed if any side that has scored as many as we have at this point hasn't gone on to win the league too, but based on the grounds we still have to visit I'm cautiously still typical City on that one.. That said, on the subject of fine margins, wins at Spurs away and Chelsea at home would probably swing the pendulum so far in our favour our competition may just start to slip away.

Been thinking about the “tough away games”. Come to the conclusion that i don’t think it’s a bad thing.
There is no easy away game in the premier league regardless of who you are playing – but i think there are easy home games.
I’d rather have an easy run of home fixtures and pretty much guarantee a good points haul from them.
Then, to be honest, whether you’re playing arsenal etc at home or away it’s going to be a tough game .

I think the victories we have already bagged at home against our main rivals will be what clinches us the title.

I'm of that opinion as well. We have some tough aways but they are all going to be six pointers for both teams and there can be no doubt we are capable of coming home with all six points in a number of these. Keep up the home form and I believe these games will win us the title if we can keep key players fit.

As a note of caution, an injury to one or worse more of silva, yaya and/or fernandinho and our season could be badly derailed.

Yes injuries are the key. We can cope without Nasri i think - but what it does do is remove our safety net. if silva gets injured as well then we really are in trouble.
In the same way we were able to cope without aguero - but if we had lost dzeko or negredo as well in the time he has been out then we would be in a very different situation than we are currently.

Even though we haven't seen him yet - jovetic could be the difference between having a decent season and a monumental one. We just need one more top class player to deal with the amount of games/injuries we'll inevitably have - jovetic is the man.
 
BobKowalski said:
petrusha said:
I wouldn't normally do this but as I've been asked for it - below are 2K words I produced in early March 2013 on the prospect of a City managerial change. I've deleted the name of the poster whose views I was challenging because I don't want this to seem like a 'told you so' post. In any case, I was more qualified and cautious about Manuel than I would be now, and whereas then I'd have opted for Mourinho if I'd been deciding on Roberto's replacement, now I'm quite glad that Txiki didn't do so.

Thanks for the kind words of a few posters above, too.

With respect, I disagree that [a poster who had questioned Pellgrini's track record] is on the money. He dismisses Pellegrini's stint at Real in a single sentence, saying it "doesn't inspire confidence". In fact, while Real may have failed in the Cups in Pellegrini's only season there, they gained what at the time was the club's record points haul in La Liga. They lost out on the title because what was rated by many as the best club team ever did slightly better. I'd suggest that in terms of showing his ability to handle the spotlight and the pressure, he actually came out of it very well.

In my opinion, it's disingenuous to characterise him as someone who can run a corner shop while Mancini can run Tesco. It's worth noting that he's taken charge of big teams in different South American leagues and won trophies with them all. And let's put his time at Real into some kind of perspective: if Barca had been forcibly relegated for breaches of the rules and Real awarded the title after that season, then been able to buy two top Barca players on the cheap to reinforce their new found dominance, maybe we'd be speaking of his record at Real in the same terms as posters on here laud Mancini's successes at Inter.

I appreciate that Mancini had improved Inter before that first title was awarded. But then Pellegrini in his only season improved Real's points haul by 18 points compared to the previous year, moulding into an effective team a disparate, unbalanced squad full of big egos that resulted from a ridiculously haphazard recruitment policy beyond his control.

So Pellegrini is a coach who's performed well (or better than that) wherever he's been, has a reputation for playing attractive football and for being a highly astute tactician. He has experience of being at probably the biggest club in the world. I'm not arguing that he's in the same league as Mourinho in terms of giving us the same trophy-winning potential that Jose would, but he deserves a bit more respect than he's being shown on here, in my view.

However, none of this addresses the context, which is that Txiki Begiristain will play a key role in what happens here. If anyone doubts Txiki's pedigree, read Graham Hunter's Barca, the account of the development of that club over the first decade of the current century. It paints our DoF in an extremely positive light, as the architect in may ways of the current football phenomenon at the Catalan club. He's been recruited by City not to produce a copy of Barca but to create a sustainable model for ongoing success that fits our own club, so we can't expect everything he did to be slavishly replicated. However, the way he went about his job at Barca is obviously going to be a good guide.

In his excellent book, Hunter calls Txiki "robust" and "football bright". The writer then goes on to say that Begiristain has: "... a profile and appetite which will one day adapt perfectly to a leading club in the Premier League - if they are ready to embrace a top-to-bottom conversion in the scouting, coaching and education of their young players". City certainly are willing to embrace that, and we'd have a different DoF if we weren't.

However, having the right first team coach is also crucial. A year ago, Chelsea were reportedly very keen to recruit Begiristain, mainly, it seems, because they thought his presence would persuade Pep Guardiola to take the manager's job. This is what Txiki said last April: "It's not enough to have a technical director who only deals with the academy and grassroots work. He's also got to be able to influence the first team as well and be able to take the vision forward. It's pointless having a technical director getting the grassroots football to go in one direction and develop a style of play if the first-team coach does not agree with those ideas."

Now, I think it's reasonable to suppose that Txiki is at City and not at Chelsea because we'll meet those conditions in which he wants to work. In other words, while the Sheikh (advised by Simon Pearce and Khaldoon, in particular) will make a final decision on the manager, I believe we can expect Txiki to have a major input. (This, of course, assumes that they remain resolved to go down the route of backing Txiki to restructure the entire football operation at the club with a view to serving the long-term interests).

I’ll nail my colours to the mast here: I don’t think Mancini will take us forward from here. I like him, and think he’s the best manager we’ve had since I started watching City in 1975 (actually, I’d probably bracket him together with Howard Kendall). I’m grateful for what he’s done for us. To nick and adapt a line I loved from David Lacey of The Guardian in his report on England’s 5-1 win over the German’s in Munich, just as Bogart and Bergman will always have Paris, so we and Mancini will always have Wembley in April and May 2011, Old Trafford in October 2011, and that amazing day in May 2012.

However, in my view, since approximately Christmas 2011, when other teams started to work out how better to stifle our attacking play, Roberto has shown no real sign of finding a solution to that. (We’re now talking about well over a year in which the glittering form of August to December 2011 has largely been but a distant and flickering memory, which makes that the exception rather than the rule under Mancini). I’m also in the camp that disagrees with those who state he’ll suddenly start to prosper in the Champions League if only he’s given more opportunities to do so. I wouldn’t necessarily berate him for failing to make the knockout stages this season in view of the opponents we faced in our group, but to me it says it all that we didn’t win a single game, taking a single point from an Ajax outfit easily dispatched twice by both Dortmund and Madrid. Nor do I think we can say that, on our performances, the results flattered our opponents.

As an aside, let me note here that I utterly loathe the Champions League: I see it as a tedious, overhyped, bloated wankfest of a tournament that has enriched a small number of big European clubs at the expense of other footballing competitions and while damaging other teams outside the self-serving elite. Nonetheless, it’s crucial to City that we start to do much better than we have in the last couple of years. This applies in terms of the owners’ ambitions, in terms of our prestige and thus ability to attract high class players to join us, and most importantly in terms of the financial considerations now that the era of Financial ‘Fair’ Play is upon us.

I also believe that the stability argument is misplaced here. The received wisdom seems to be that a change in manager also inevitably results in a major overhaul of the playing staff. We, though, are set to have one anyway if reports are to be believed. FFP arguably dictates that overpaid squad members will need to be moved on, which means that this summer would be an ideal time to make a change if there’s one to be made in the next couple of years.

Let’s for a moment here accept my hypothesis a few paragraphs back that the recruitment of Txiki suggests a willingness on the part of the board and owner to be persuaded by any recommendations he may make with regard to the manager’s position. The question is whether Txiki will see Mancini as someone he can work with bearing in mind the remit that the DoF has been given. Obviously here we’re into the realms of guesswork, but my conjecture is that he’ll see Roberto as a fit in terms of the style of football. Save for a few months at the back end of 2011, I suspect that the default method under the Italian will have been too one-paced and ponderous. Nor do I believe that Txiki will see Mancini as someone whose strength will lie in bringing through whatever kids we decide are worth a crack (maybe Guidetti or Rekkik if he improves on his current form away on loan).

Moreover, if Txiki doesn’t believe in Roberto and wants to bring in his own man, then this is the ideal time. In effect, he has an excuse. We’re currently a long way behind United in the league and have regressed in points terms compared to last season. Notwithstanding an absolute woman of a draw, failing to win a single game in Europe was a pretty pitiful effort. In other words, he has an excuse now: if he wants to strike, the iron is probably hot enough. Of course I may be wrong because I don’t have a hotline to Txiki’s thoughts but, in my view, those on here who are suggesting that Mancini is clearly safe at this stage are allowing their hearts to rule their heads.

I’ll nail another set of colours to the mast. If I were in Txiki’s position, I’d go all out to recruit Mourinho. I’ve no doubt that Jose wouldn’t be ideal either in terms of our DoF’s blueprint. However, I consider that the Portuguese offers a potential for success that could electrify our project. Mancini, with his relative failure to answer the way teams have nullified us for more than a year and his underwhelming career record in the Champions League, doesn’t in my view have a compelling case for Txiki to compromise his way of doing things because of what he’ll win us: I’ve no doubt we’d continue to qualify for the CL automatically under him and maybe snatch the odd Cup. However, if Txiki doesn’t view Roberto as the man to put in motion the implementation of the long-term plan, then I don’t see that there’s an argument that the Italian will guarantee short-term success. If you want short-term success, Jose’s your go-to guy.

Of course, Txiki has passed Jose over once before. Those were different circumstances, but maybe he’ll decide to do so again because he sees City’s interests as being served by developing the club in a different way. Personally, based all the reading and research I’ve been able to do, I’m delighted to have Txiki at City. My belief is that, if we all gather together in ten years’ time and see where the club is then, we’ll be glad we hired him. For me, if he eases Mancini through the exit door and if he passes on the chance to mount a serious pursuit of Mourinho as a replacement, then in both cases his track record would make me trust his judgment.

It’s worth looking at the two managerial appointments that Txiki was instrumental in driving at Barca. Both were outstanding successes, and illustrate that he’s not afraid of making picks that other people would consider highly questionable. Not only that, but was vindicated in spectacular fashion on each occasion.

In 2003, Txiki came on board as part of a new regime at a club that had just failed even to qualify for the CL and was losing money hand over fist. Frank Rijkaard was named as new manager. His track record was taking Holland to the semis in Euro 2000 with a squad that also reached the last four of the 1998 World Cup under Guus Hiddink, then being relegated with Sparta Rotterdam in his only season in club football. Post-Barca, he was sacked by Galatasaray early in his second season with the club in mid table, having failed to make the CL the previous campaign. He’s recently been fired by Saudi Arabia, having crashed out of the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup. But at Barca he won La Liga twice as well as the Champions League during his first three seasons.

In 2007, Txiki advised the Barca board that Rijkaard had, as the argot puts it, ‘lost the dressing room’ and should be replaced, but this didn’t happen for another year. When the change was finally made, it came down to a choice between Mourinho and a former Barca player whose entire coaching experience was a solitary year with the Barcelona B team. Admittedly, he achieved promotion with them, but it was from the Spanish fourth tier. He won a regionalised Catalan league comprising mainly village teams, and then a set of play offs against more village teams. Yet Txiki advocated picking him ahead of Mourinho, and Pep Guardiola’s subsequent trophy haul more than justified that decision.

I personally wouldn’t be surprised if we did go for Pellegrini, and in my opinion that would be a far better choice than people seem to believe. He’s a genuinely good manager, who performed well in his sole year inarguably club football’s biggest job. He was treated shabbily by Real Madrid but has shown his quality again at Malaga. He’d play attractive football, is a cultural fit with the ethos Txiki is seeking to instil and would fit with the DoF model. I’d personally quite excited by the idea of a squad remoulded by Txiki in the summer and coached by Pellegrini, though I appreciate I’m in a minority on this board in holding that view.

But whoever is in charge next season, I think we’ll have a squad that’s better equipped to challenge that we’ve had during this current season. Ultimately, too, with a very astute operator like Begiristain advising the board as to who should be manager, then whether it’s Mancini, Mourinho, Pellegrini or someone else, I’ll put aside my own prejudices and back the incumbent. I think Txiki’s record justifies our backing his assessment.

I seem to recall doing the 'managing a corner shop/Tesco' analogy.

First off, and I have said it enough times, I have no issue with Ferran & Txiki. For the board having F&T run things is a no brainer. The only real issue I had with Txiki was the total balls up over the way the managerial change was made. It was poorly handled and I expected better. I also think the board dropped a bollock with the way they tried/hoped to make a F&T and Roberto partnership 'work'. Accepting Roberto's resignation (which I will assume is true) would have been the smart move as it would have avoided having two separate camps trying to tun the show and wasting a year with everyone pulling in different directions.

Having listened to F&T at the NYC presser and the importance of the coach sharing their philosophy it again demonstrates why we do have Pellers and not Mancini/Mourinho/Benitez et al as it is F&T who dictate the philosophy and structure the squad accordingly. I'm a fan of the DoF model so again no issue from me.

On Pellers himself am liking the football but still believe that we are too open and too loose. I prefer it when we control games and have more structure to the team hence my preference for other coaches but that is a personal point of view. Our defending against Newcastle for example was very last ditch stuff at times but if we controlled the midfield better we would protect the back four better and everything would be less dramatic. Its the Scotty Parker vs Gareth Barry argument. I prefer the latter style of play and some prefer the former. Yes again with the analogies.

My issue with Pellers at the time was the lack of silverware and it still is. We play (at times) great football yet we are still 1 point behind Arsenal and only 1 point ahead of Chelsea who have been largely cack with no strikers worth mentioning. We have by far the best team/squad in the PL with Txiki making some great acquisitions in the summer bar Jovetic. (who may come good if he ever manages to get to a game). Edin had it spot on last night. This team/squad is the better than the title winning side with its key players in their 4th season together and with no ACON to distract us and Taggert out of the way the PL is/should be for the taking. Whether we do or not remains to be seen but its proving to be fascinating struggle as Jose frantically welds the plating to his battle tank and Wenger prays to the Gods of injuries and we for the love of mike keep conceding time and space in front of the fucking back four (end rant)...

So where was I? Ah yes. Is Pellers the man to lead us to glory or will he assume his customary role of most popular bridesmaid?

Well fuck knows. I can't call it but it has been enjoyable so whatever the outcome (and with the League Cup in the bag) I'll be philosophical if the outcome is us clutching a posy in our hands.

You've been away from this thread for a long time, which is understandable . But I remember your last post just as we were starting our winning run. You demanded to know if anyone could tell you what pellegrini's football philosophy was. 'Come on , the floor's yours...' you harrumphed.

Now, a month or so later, I would say there are as yet undiscovered life forms clinging onto hypothermic vents at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean who can clearly see a clear;
coherent, consistent , modern and exciting football philosophy being implemented at city. The question is, can you, bob?

Come on...the floor's yours ;-)
 
Didsbury Dave said:
adrianr said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I agree entirely.

It is more of a concern that the goodwill towards Pellegrini, from some, has been a little late in the day.

Less than three months ago there were pathetic threads posted on this forum calling him an old tosspot, Txiki and Soriano were destroying us from within.

That fickleness has to be replaced by a clear understanding of what Pellegrini's aims are, regardless of 0-4 trophies.

For the record, I think we will do two and desperate for one to be the league.

The league is always the priority for me.. Maybe when we've won it ten times I'll start shifting to the CL but there's nothing better than topping every team in the country over the course of a season.

A league and league cup double would have me so delirious I'd probably wonder in front of a bus.

That's more or less where it's at for me. I'd rather win the league than two domestic trophies. But given the choice of the champs league or premier league I think i would take the champs.

I see almost no chance of four, a tiny chance of 3 and an entirely realistic chance of 2. Which would be just fine and dandy for me, thank you very much. And if it were one trophy and it was the premier league then id be well happy too.

My views also DD. That said if it's one trophy and it's the premier league, as fantastic as that would be and very deserving on how we have performed so far this season, it would no doubt also mean a cup final defeat to the rags, which would be pretty hard to take considering how inferior we currently look to them!
 
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