The Tory Party Are Lower Than Vermin

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's Asc-et, remember.

 

[Mustard Dave]

The hard workers being those that need 2 jobs at minimum wage rather than the heads of the thieving corporations and the particularly bent bastards that are now giving themselves bonuses after you handed over your tax. Yes lets vote for that nonsense again.

aah all the tact of the rotten corrupt wankers that infest the Tories. All for me and one for me.

If you are on minimum wage, you are probably not very bright.

What an utterly pathetic statement - I know of several graduates who are employed on minimum wages, and they have first class honours degrees.
You really do come across as an arrogant, uncaring 'me, me, me' individual - extrapolating your own personal success story as some kind of proof positive that anyone can lift themselves up by their boostraps through sheer hard work and perseverance is a lovely notion, but one that has no basis whatsoever in fact, as some folk never get the opportunities you were fortunate enough to make the most of in the first place.
And that is what socialists such as myself want - as level as possible a playing field for everyone, not one based on parental wealth, or hereditary titles, or old school ties, so that folk really can achieve their potential, even if they or their relatives happen to be less well off.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp - it just requires a degree of empathy, compassion and humanity - three commodities which I'm sorry to say you conspicuously lack.
And then you cap it all by quoting that reprehensible piece of excrement Jeremy Kyle in some forlorn attempt to validate some point or other, and at that point myself and most likely the rest of the forum stopped taking you seriously.
I know that I'm wasting my time here - you will carry on voting Conservative because you don't give a fuck about anyone but yourself - that is entirely your right, but thankfully some of us can perceive a world beyond our front doors, and a bigger picture than your myopic narrow-mindedness permits, and we would rather stick pins in our eyes than vote for a party that merely mirrors your insular selfishness.

A degree does not give you the right to walk into a high paid position. Another Labour fuck-up was getting everybody leaving school into university, studying fore some worthless degree rather than something an employer will find useful. There are obviously many professions that require a specific degree (medical, building surveying, etc) but many are just an indicator that you can apply yourself to gaining knowledge and you are therefore suitable for a junior role.

I don't know what gives you the impression I am uncaring; I have pointed out several times that I do support the idea of state support for those that need it.

You mention me extrapolating my own personal success story - when did I do that? The only thing I think I have mentioned about my career is that I did an electrical apprenticeship, which is the same career path many working class school-leavers take. As it happens, I'm not doing to shabby these days, thanks for asking, but I have voted Conservative all my adult life, the first part of which was working for a large public sector employer (where I was also a union rep until I left).

The fact I quoted that turd Jeremy Kyle is irrelevant - I dis say I shuddered to do so. The phrase I quoted was 'put something on the end of it', which is a perfectly legitimate comment when directed at somebody who cannot afford to raise children.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

They often assume that people harbour right-wing (not extreme right-wing) views solely for reasons of selfishness, which is hopelessly simplistic imo.

Many people hold right-wing views because they have a view on how society should be ordered. They believe that self-reliance and self-improvement are more virtuous than people relying on others. They believe that the rights of the individual should trump those of the state. They believe in a strong system of law and order - and the rule of law - as they believe that this is what is required to maintain order in society. They believe that, ultimately, human beings are selfish and will generally act according to that instinct - and that is just the way it is

These are not views that I agree with, in the main, but I can appreciate why some people will hold them.

I think some people are so consumed with emotion on this matter, that they fail to appreciate and understand some people's motivations for looking at the world in a different way.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

They often assume that people harbour right-wing (not extreme right-wing) views solely for reasons of selfishness, which is hopelessly simplistic imo.

Many people hold right-wing views because they have a view on how society should be ordered. They believe that self-reliance and self-improvement are more virtuous than people relying on others. They believe that the rights of the individual should trump those of the state. They believe in a strong system of law and order - and the rule of law - as they believe that this is what is required to maintain order in society. They believe that, ultimately, human beings are selfish and will generally act according to that instinct - and that is just the way it is

These are not views that I agree with, in the main, but I can appreciate why some people will hold them.

I think some people are so consumed with emotion on this matter, that they fail to appreciate and understand some people's motivations for looking at the world in a different way.

True this. Plus the fact that experience shows the flaws inherent in a statist society, and that the ones controlling that society are more susceptible to expanding their powers, with the resultant stagnation and decline that ensues.
This is not to say that socialism is an evil concept, it isn't, but the inevitable tax and spend policies always fail in the end.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

Yes, those on the left always lack empathy, don't they?
We're forever failing to understand the plight of those less off than ourselves - if only we could be more enlightened.
We just jump to the simplistic conclusions that many folk on the right think that way because they can't see a world beyond their own front doors, and that they think folk deserve to be poor, and that because they have made good, everyone else can do too if they work hard enough.
How blinkered of us.
It's just a good job that we have liberal fence-sitters like yourself on hand to point this out.
If you want to see an abundance of empathy-lack, then I suggest you look elsewhere on the political spectrum before you turn your sights on the left.

 

[jma]

Many people hold right-wing views because they have a view on how society should be ordered. They believe that self-reliance and self-improvement are more virtuous than people relying on others. They believe that the rights of the individual should trump those of the state. They believe in a strong system of law and order - and the rule of law - as they believe that this is what is required to maintain order in society. They believe that, ultimately, human beings are selfish and will generally act according to that instinct - and that is just the way it is
.

I would think that a lot of people who identify themselves as 'left wing' (as much as I hate the modern use of the terms 'left wing' and 'right wing') would hold many of those views. Just not to the extreme as some.

I suppose many would say I am 'left wing'.

I believe in an ordered society. I believe that self-reliance and self-improvement are better than relying on others (but I might have more time, concern, sympathy for people who find themselves in positions where they have to be reliant. As well as a bit more of a willingness to view cases as individual circumstances rather than automatically assume they are scroungers). I believe in a strong (but fair and honest) system of law and order that maintains order. I also think that I believe that humans, as a whole, act in self interest. But whether what they do, thinking they are acting in self interest is often completely informed, carefully considered and a function of long term thinking is another matter. Political history is full of examples of populations being duped into thinking something is in their interest when it isn't.

Maybe I should be joining the Conservative Party. But I can't get over the fact that they govern for the benefit of a small section of the population - even if it does occasionally benefit small sections of the population that they don't give a fuck about. It's no coincidence that they have opposed the majority of major social advancements made by the average person in this country for the last 300 years.

 

[SWP's back]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

Yes, those on the left always lack empathy, don't they?
We're forever failing to understand the plight of those less off than ourselves - if only we could be more enlightened.
We just jump to the simplistic conclusions that many folk on the right think that way because they can't see a world beyond their own front doors, and that they think folk deserve to be poor, and that because they have made good, everyone else can do too if they work hard enough.
How blinkered of us.
It's just a good job that we have liberal fence-sitters like yourself on hand to point this out.
If you want to see an abundance of empathy-lack, then I suggest you look elsewhere on the political spectrum before you turn your sights on the left.

Totally ignore his point why dont you.

 

[DelToro]

No. He isn't.

I'm afraid he is.

Read "Whoops Apocalypse" by John Lanchester and he demonstrates how financial mismanagement and greed allied to deregulation (a fault of both Tory and Labour administrations) led to the 2008 crash.

You're moving away from the point that Rob is incorrect.

Nope.

Rob, in a very superficial manner and using different vocabulary has encapsulated some of the key themes from the book.

I agree with the points made in the book.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

Yes, those on the left always lack empathy, don't they?
We're forever failing to understand the plight of those less off than ourselves - if only we could be more enlightened.
We just jump to the simplistic conclusions that many folk on the right think that way because they can't see a world beyond their own front doors, and that they think folk deserve to be poor, and that because they have made good, everyone else can do too if they work hard enough.
How blinkered of us.
It's just a good job that we have liberal fence-sitters like yourself on hand to point this out.
If you want to see an abundance of empathy-lack, then I suggest you look elsewhere on the political spectrum before you turn your sights on the left.

Totally ignore his point why dont you.

He doesn't have a valid point, but I'm sure he appreciates your support.
You used to be a decent poster - now it's as if someone has hacked into your account.
Now you simply troll folk in some desperate quest to provoke an argument you invariably end up losing anyway.
Maybe that sun is taking it's toll.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I've said this before, but people on the left always have a real lack of empathy when it comes to evaluating why people are right wing, especially right-wing people from the working classes.

Yes, those on the left always lack empathy, don't they?
We're forever failing to understand the plight of those less off than ourselves - if only we could be more enlightened.
We just jump to the simplistic conclusions that many folk on the right think that way because they can't see a world beyond their own front doors, and that they think folk deserve to be poor, and that because they have made good, everyone else can do too if they work hard enough.
How blinkered of us.
It's just a good job that we have liberal fence-sitters like yourself on hand to point this out.
If you want to see an abundance of empathy-lack, then I suggest you look elsewhere on the political spectrum before you turn your sights on the left.

You're a bright bloke and I like you as a poster and as a person, but you do have an unfortunate habit of latching onto something in a post and blowing it all out of proportion, twisting it, or both.

I chose my words carefully. I always do. You know this.

My observation about lack of empathy related merely to that particular point and this was conveyed in the express form that I have highlighted.

Quite how you've taken that to mean that I'm stating that left wing people have no empathy at all, is something only you can begin to answer.

For the avoidance of doubt, I think left wing people are generally more empathetic than right wing folk.