EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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Very selective. South American economies are performing worse than the EU and our youth unemployment would be in the middle of the EU pack but for artificially inflating Uni places!

True. But when it gets to a stage when comparing 1st world developed economies, and saying they're marginally better than developing economies in South America, it's clear it's not flourishing.
Not sure how raising fees from £3000 to £9000 could cause that much of an artificial rise!
 
Manchester City hierarchy will be sh!tting themselves over a Brexit result right now.
 
With respect I don't think you understand the basics of the international world we live in and you treat sovereignty by a narrow historically dates definition.

There are elements to it that are aad but it's the world we live in, Australia is no different. But tomorrow's vote should be about a real vote and a fantasy vote on some naive assumption we can have something that just doesn't exist anymore is a waste and long term can only disappoint.

It is not a question of accepting it , it has long been accepted and from the minute you wake up to the minute you go to sleep unless you are some sort of western isle living hippy with no transport and electrics you will make decisions that only make it more and more true.

You can embrace the world for the exciting, magic, dangerous place that it is and build for your future by harnessing it or you can try and put your head in the sand and turn back the clock. There are no guarantees for the former but the only guarantee for the latter is you cannot change the tide we are in by a vote on something that is so tiny and irellevant to the overall issue .

Yet again you just respond by completely misrepresenting my position, with your argument again based around that misrepresentation of my beliefs and wishes. A misrepresentation of what a Brexit could represent, and what would be possible thereafter.

You're full of shit mate, frankly. And I'm tired of trying to discuss this topic with you, you're incapable, or unwilling, to do so even handedly.

You respond with nonsensical strawman arguments by default.

We're not going to agree here, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
 
We having this debate because Cameron wanted to make sure he won the election and tangled this carrot!;)...dont think be banked on the fall out it was going to cause!

Vote for change? Grass isnt always greener and many that vote out (not pointing this at anymore on here!) dont actually know what that change will bring to them or the country...they just dont want the EU to have a say on that change!

I personally think we have a strong economy today because of our connection with the EU, because of the trade deals we have etc,etc...I believe there is more positive than negative from being a EU member...yes, maybe we could have still been strong outside the EU today, on our own but thats a maybe that many dont want/cant afford to risk. Without this referendum, I believe most average working class people on the street, for most of the time, havent even given the EU a second thought in their day to day lives and......

This is where the leave campaign have done such a good job.....they not selling something you can see or smell or hear....they selling a hope, hope/dream that things "might" be better out than in.....I personally like the fact we are the 5th biggest economy today, while being in the EU and personally dont have an issue with the fact that after 30+ years of "freedom of movement" only 5% of the country is from the EU and I personally like the fact that millions of Brits have the freedom to live/work across europe today....For me(just a personal opinion) most of our problems we have(not all) are caused by this government and problems "we've" caused to our own country....so I'll be wanting change but I'll be voting for that change to take place at General election time...I just feel we need to stop blaming the EU for all our problems, otherwise we'll be voting out and be disappointed to find that many of problems we hoped would change for the better, are still there.......for example: immigration....nearly half of all our immigration are non EU....that has nothing to do with "freedom of movement"....for years the Government has offered jobs to overseas(non EU) people when they should be training and investing in the people here in the UK.....this is just one of many problems I have with this Government and Governments before it and it has nothing to do with the EU...

I understand that some have been hit harder than others by immigration or by EU red tape and if that has impacted that individual on a personal level, I completely understand that person voting out.....but voting for "pride in our country" or a "hope/dream" the world will be a better place if we out...doesnt make sense to me...I hear comments like we should "grow some balls" and "take charge"....sadly the economy doesnt run "on balls".....and I disagree, we cant keep our identity while being apart of the EU....you only needed to see the Queens Birthday celebrations (just an example) to see what it means to be British....being part of the EU hasnt taken anything away from what we stand for..

If someone feels their life is so bad while we've been in the EU, then I agree...you vote out but voting out for "change" sake....doesnt seem right! We all have different reasons for voting in/out and every vote is as important as the next.... but I just believe you need to vote for more than just "take control of your own problems"..I personally prefer to share mine!;) The UK government is not going to help you, if your boss has to close his/her business because they lose most of their EU customers, or when your house value drops 10-15% or when that family holiday is more expensive that you cant take the kids away.....none of these things might happened but they could, so vote out if you happy to risk it.....even today on the news, queues of people trying to buy their currency because they worried if we vote leave the pound isnt going to be worth as much and their holidays are going to cost more....I also heard today from someone that works for Lloyds, that there is rumours they are willing to move some of their offices out of the UK if we vote leave?? Again, might not happen but all these are very real issues that will affect the average working person on a day to day level, alot more than any EU regulation.....cheers and sorry for the long post!;)
Excellent post on the subject and exactly how i and many feel on the subject , the EU has many faults without a doubt , but a vote to leave is like throwing the baby out with the bath water as they say
 
Yet again you just respond by completely misrepresenting my position, with your argument again based around that misrepresentation of my beliefs and wishes. A misrepresentation of what a Brexit could represent, and what would be possible thereafter.

You're full of shit mate, frankly. And I'm tired of trying to discuss this topic with you, you're incapable, or unwilling, to do so even handedly.

You respond with nonsensical strawman arguments by default.

We're not going to agree here, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

I am not a religious man and I just don't understand or compute a blind faith in a mythical beast (in this case sovereignty) that all around me every day I see evidence through work, through the media, through politics and our arrangements simply does not exist.

From the start I have seen pragmatic brexiters such as metal biker who I disagree with but whom seem to be vote on facts. But then I see a group who talk about heart , sovereignty , and things that are just not part of our real world , who choose to blame everything on the EU ignoring facts.

You could choose to explain how our transport, infrastructure, defence, trade, power, etc are completely sovereign , trade, communications are sovereign, under our control and independent but you can't because it is clear to everyone they are not and never will be. So why do we pretend that this is about controlling our destiny when everyone can see we will have no more control tomorrow than we do today.

It's like a religion and I don't get it. The evidence of my eyes of the world we live in can't be explained away by a dream of a beautiful independent future .

Of course we disagree and out votes will cancel each other out - the beauty of democracy
 
Manchester City hierarchy will be sh!tting themselves over a Brexit result right now.
The academy heads will be and the premier league will be that's for sure. Our academy Losing the ability to bring in 16-18 year olds will be brutal for our ability to grow the way we plan. I don't think we will get hurt by first team free movement of labour but the Fifa exemption within the EU will be pretty tough - no more Brahmin. Diaz
 
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