MCFChistory
Member
- Joined
- 23 Sep 2011
- Messages
- 24
I'm the author of A Man's Game: the Origins of Manchester City FC.
In my first week as a history student, back in the 1980s, a history professor told me: “Ignore other people's conclusions. The only thing that matters is the evidence”. That is great advice for anyone who wants to write about history.
I've laid out the evidence as to why Gorton Association is a very different club to St Mark's at Manchester Football History and am happy to discuss it with anyone.
http://www.manchesterfootballhistory.com/
The ebook version is 30,000 words (the paperback will be published in May) covering the period up to 1885. It includes a huge amount of new information that I've unearthed during four years of research and is the most detailed account of this period in City's history ever written. Most of the evidence cannot be found in any other book.
My book also goes into detail about City's historiography (the history of the history), to explain why 1880 became the accepted starting date. The first history of the club was published in the 1898 Golden Penny magazine and claimed the club was formed in the “early eighties” by its players. This is consistent with the mass of later evidence. The 1880 date was first introduced into City's history in the 1906 Book of Football. The anonymously-written piece also claimed that Ardwick moved to Hyde Road in 1889 (the correct date is 1887), stated that a Mr W Chew was “the father of the club” (a claim that has not been repeated since) and its timeline of early events omits a whole season. In short, it cannot be viewed as a reliable source of information. I've also identified the most likely author of the 1906 history in my book.
The first mention of St Mark's in a City history wasn't until Fred Johnson’s Manchester City: A Souvenir History in 1930. As most of the club's records had been lost in a fire at Hyde Road in 1920, it's likely that Johnson's formation date was influenced by the Book of Football. It is also likely that Walter Chew, who was treasurer of the Manchester FA in the early 1900s, was consulted in both the 1906 and 1930 histories. While Chew's involvement may be significant, there is a long line of research that emphasises the unreliability of memory as an historical source, and the dangers of basing conclusions on memory alone.
Which brings me back to the point about the all-importance of evidence. Gary, you state that “The one thing that was always clear was that some of the people continued to be involved with the club and claim it as the same organisation from 1880 through to the 1940s - as they were directly involved I think their views have to be remembered”. You also say that “there are people directly involved who in the early 1900s talked of the club's roots going back to 1880 and St. Mark's”. Who are you referring to and what exactly did they claim?
You state that the 1880 start date is backed up by heavy research, but did not give any details of the actual evidence. Gary, I've got a great deal of respect for the work you've done in promoting City's history, so if you tell me what evidence you're referring to I'd love to discuss it with you in more detail.
If anyone is unsure about buying this book you can read half of the opening chapter at Amazon through the “Look Inside” feature. That chapter provides detailed new evidence about how football became established in Manchester, including previously-unknown details of the first recorded game of association football played in the city.
In my first week as a history student, back in the 1980s, a history professor told me: “Ignore other people's conclusions. The only thing that matters is the evidence”. That is great advice for anyone who wants to write about history.
I've laid out the evidence as to why Gorton Association is a very different club to St Mark's at Manchester Football History and am happy to discuss it with anyone.
http://www.manchesterfootballhistory.com/
The ebook version is 30,000 words (the paperback will be published in May) covering the period up to 1885. It includes a huge amount of new information that I've unearthed during four years of research and is the most detailed account of this period in City's history ever written. Most of the evidence cannot be found in any other book.
My book also goes into detail about City's historiography (the history of the history), to explain why 1880 became the accepted starting date. The first history of the club was published in the 1898 Golden Penny magazine and claimed the club was formed in the “early eighties” by its players. This is consistent with the mass of later evidence. The 1880 date was first introduced into City's history in the 1906 Book of Football. The anonymously-written piece also claimed that Ardwick moved to Hyde Road in 1889 (the correct date is 1887), stated that a Mr W Chew was “the father of the club” (a claim that has not been repeated since) and its timeline of early events omits a whole season. In short, it cannot be viewed as a reliable source of information. I've also identified the most likely author of the 1906 history in my book.
The first mention of St Mark's in a City history wasn't until Fred Johnson’s Manchester City: A Souvenir History in 1930. As most of the club's records had been lost in a fire at Hyde Road in 1920, it's likely that Johnson's formation date was influenced by the Book of Football. It is also likely that Walter Chew, who was treasurer of the Manchester FA in the early 1900s, was consulted in both the 1906 and 1930 histories. While Chew's involvement may be significant, there is a long line of research that emphasises the unreliability of memory as an historical source, and the dangers of basing conclusions on memory alone.
Which brings me back to the point about the all-importance of evidence. Gary, you state that “The one thing that was always clear was that some of the people continued to be involved with the club and claim it as the same organisation from 1880 through to the 1940s - as they were directly involved I think their views have to be remembered”. You also say that “there are people directly involved who in the early 1900s talked of the club's roots going back to 1880 and St. Mark's”. Who are you referring to and what exactly did they claim?
You state that the 1880 start date is backed up by heavy research, but did not give any details of the actual evidence. Gary, I've got a great deal of respect for the work you've done in promoting City's history, so if you tell me what evidence you're referring to I'd love to discuss it with you in more detail.
If anyone is unsure about buying this book you can read half of the opening chapter at Amazon through the “Look Inside” feature. That chapter provides detailed new evidence about how football became established in Manchester, including previously-unknown details of the first recorded game of association football played in the city.
