1894 Group supports City Matters reforms

[Eccles Blue]

You make some fair points.

Couple of replies…

1894 has a membership of a few thousand City fans. We have a group of core volunteers who run different aspects of 1894 (from displays to campaigning).

We allow our members to elect people to these roles yearly (via newsletter/email).



1894 was originally set up to help improve the atmosphere. We were never meant to be a pressure group. We found (over the past decade) that there were various things we could campaign for that would improve the atmosphere (20’s plenty/rail seating for example). We have become a pressure group on behalf of fans because there is not independent supporters trust/no-one else speaking up.


I personally do not want to ‘run the club’. I accept that HHSM wants to see a return on his investment. But football is more than business. It’s culture, heritage, tradition. The ownership and boardroom are TEMPORARY custodians. We the fans have and will always be the true, ever-present ‘owners’ of our club. All I want to see is that we’re treated not as an afterthought. Ticket price rises are unnecessary. Charging disabled fans to park is unnecessary. Selling champions league semi-final tickets to tourists with no previous purchase history ahead of fans with decades worth of attendance is wrong. Don’t even get me started on the Super League bollocks!

I think it’s absolutely right that we demand a better deal. I’ll still be a City fan in 10/20/30 years…. Will Soriano still be sat in the boardroom?

@Manchester33 thank you for your concise yet thorough response and I hope you understand that I am just curious. I have been involved in and held office in my trade union for years and am always nosy and like to see how things are run and the history of them.
I also hope that I have not offended anyone, especially the 1894 group who do a great job with the banners and displays (& of course when you have one that says John Stones is the greatest player ever ;-) then you will be doing a magnificent, fantastic etc job)

The paragraph I have highlighted in Blue is just exactly what I wanted to hear in my heart, because I knew that you are fighting for the fans and I'm with you all the way, although these days I keep my campaigning to signing petitions and encouraging others because I've done my share I think. (Sorry)

I remember the old days at Maine Road when we had the supporters club with the variety and cabaret acts at weekends. My ex-husband was a friend of people involved even though he wasn't that interested in football. (go figure) I follow this club because it is still in my mind our club, and I vaguely remember when I first found Blue Moon forum saying that owners come and owners go, players come and players go but the one constant is Manchester City our football club. That has never changed in all my 68 or so years of supporting us.

Thank you again and as I say I hope you weren't offended at anything I wrote and understood/understand where I am coming from. I know it is a bit of a glib statement but City till I die.

MANCHESTER CITY THE BEST FANS IN THE LAND AND ALL THE WORLD

 

[paulchapo]

Sorry to butt in but I am just (practising) playing Devil's Advocate here:

@nmc is correct when (s)he says that Angela Worrall might not have agreed with the statement and is entitled to have an opinion.

The whole point of a committee/group of this kind is to get opinions not for them all to follow blindly like sheep.

Whilst the CM and the 1894 group appear to be adopting a role representing the fans I am not 100% sure how this came about.
I know how the CM representatives were chosen and elected although 1894 seem to be disagreeing with how this is done. How were 1894 group elected?
If we have CM, 1894 and the OSC why do we need another group?
Who would elect/choose/decide on how the other group is made up?

Maybe most of the fans are quite happy/resigned to the way things are run. Maybe they just want to go to the match and enjoy the football. Yes they might have little moans about transport, food, seating (although the club have explained the seating of the away fans over and over again) and the atmosphere but it's not the end of the world if they don't get it the way the fans want it.
This is not the City of Maine Road any more really, we love to think we are a family club who look after the fans and to be honest (this may be where my DA falls down a bit) I think they do an ok job. Not perfect but ok. If it were perfect they would have nothing to strive for would they?

Basically what I am wondering in my DA voice is what is it the CM people and 1894 want?
Do they feel that they should be running the club? Do they feel that they should be the ones making decisions on pricing etc., not the club who have poured millions, if not billions, of pounds into the infrastructure and the building and the players/coaches/academy etc.

Just a few random thoughts. Sorry if I offend anyone, that is not my intention I am just curious and want (like all of you) what is best for the club I love, the club I have supported for many, many years. :-) :-)
Apologies also if it is just a ramble but I feel that all this is taking away from our football enjoyment.
JMHO

Your comments are welcome and as valid as anybody's EB. For myself personally I'm not a member of any supporters group, official or otherwise. I did however get involved with the Swales out protests at Maine Road and was a staunch trade unionists when I was at work. I will always stand up for anything I consider isn't fair or right.

On the subject of 1894 and the supporters clubs I appreciate the time and effort they put in to try and improve things for everybody attending games. Their powers to affect change are however limited as they always were, even at Maine Road. The club might listen and act on their ideas and concerns or it might not. That's life unfortunately it's not a democracy no matter how long we've supported and love the club.

In my humble opinion the club is at a bit of a crossroads regarding our support. Recent success has built up a worldwide interest and as a result a clamour for tickets, particularly for the more glamorous ties. Not so much for the less glamorous ones, as the empty seats around me at the Brentford game proved. This interest has got the money men at the club seeing the pounds signs. Our match day tickets are now often over £60. I'm lucky I have a season ticket but I would absolutely refuse to pay that to watch a football match if I didn't. While I appreciate the massive investment and improvements to both the infrastructure and team it is pointless if local fans cannot afford to attend games. We ignore this at our peril as eventually we will also end up being priced out. It's inevitable.

As for yourself you don't need to get involved or worry about any of this if you choose not to. That applies to anybody of a similar mindset. If these supporters groups have any success we will all benefit. If not nothing changes for you. Enjoy getting to the games when you can as you always do.

 

[MillsyTheMosher]

1894 GROUP SUPPORTS CITYMATTERS REFORMS - Statement from the group, 24th September 2024.

Citymatters, is the club's preferred Fan Advisory Board and is next due to meet the club in October.

We want Citymatters to have real teeth but also for there to be a willingness on the part of the representatives to use them.

So we feel we now have to give both them and the club a very public nudge whilst remembering anyone serving is doing it for free and giving up their spare time.

Three new members have joined the Citymatters board, we wish them well and applaud their enthusiasm, however the shortlisting was done by SIX people at the club. Previously a Chelsea fan got through to sit on the board.

We support Alex Howell, the current chair, with his wishes to modernise and restructure Citymatters. These proposals seem to have been rejected by the club, which is a mistake because if it is not a proper two way relationship, the club will always end being out of touch and end up with desperate damage limitation every time there's a PR disaster.

We feel these proposals actually don't go far enough.

The process needs to allow for people to come through who are capable of holding their own with executives of a very powerful football club, not be overwhelmed by hospitality or by the chance to have tea and biscuits with the club.

In line with much of what the chair's own report says, we say a Fan Advisory Board should be:

* Fully independent from the club, that the club should not be involved in the shortlisting of candidates.

* That representatives serve a designated two year term and then cannot re-apply for a further two years.

* The agenda for all meetings set by fans and not the club. They can use other meetings for "focus groups."

* Transparent meeting notes for all meetings and the club to take on board constructive criticism and not try to alter any notes.

* That Ferrano Soriano , Khaldoon Al-Mubarak and Roel De Vries should attend at least once a year.

* That the club sign up fully to the principle of fan engagement and see Citymatters as a fan representative body with a mandate and not to see it as a platform to rubber stamp their own new initiatives. Citymatters reps themselves have commented the club blindsides them on policy and pays them lip service which is very unfair.

* Finally that all Citymatters reps recognise the power and support they would receive from the vast majority of City supporters if they were prepared to challenge the club much more firmly on ticketing, pricing and atmosphere policy. A sharing of the workload amongst reps on these items is necessary and a desire to really understand what a majority of fans have concerns about is really important. So the current format of how Citymatters is structured should be revisited and the club themselves are blocking this because they don't want to hear criticism.

City fans had an independent fans group called Points of Blue, meeting independently at The Lass O'Gowrie in Manchester for many years, invites were always sent out to the club to attend but they were always ignored, even though fans sent the minutes into the club. Citymatters was only set up because the club HAD to do it, not particularly because they WANTED to do it. Citymatters reps are there to represent the FANS not to represent the CLUB, If the club continue to ignore the fans on ticket prices and ideas such as Flexi Gold they will only face PR issues because they won't understand why the feeling is strong if they have a stranglehold over the way fan advisory boards are set up.

Ultimately a supporters trust of note is just round the corner if the club cannot or will not implement much needed reforms to Citymatters.
Alex Howell's original proposals an be found here :

Some nice ideas here but suggesting Khaldoon himself attends City Matters fan meetings is a very silly.

Khaldoon and HRH employ people (and pay them handsomely) to deal with these matters. Khaldoon has far, far more important issues to deal with than ticket prices or the atmosphere at the Etihad. Khaldoons role at City is just one of many global roles he holds and Mubadala will of course take up much of his time. To suggest he fly in from AD for a City matters meeting is absurd.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Your comments are welcome and as valid as anybody's EB. For myself personally I'm not a member of any supporters group, official or otherwise. I did however get involved with the Swales out protests at Maine Road and was a staunch trade unionists when I was at work. I will always stand up for anything I consider isn't fair or right.

On the subject of 1894 and the supporters clubs I appreciate the time and effort they put in to try and improve things for everybody attending games. Their powers to affect change are however limited as they always were, even at Maine Road. The club might listen and act on their ideas and concerns or it might not. That's life unfortunately it's not a democracy no matter how long we've supported and love the club.

In my humble opinion the club is at a bit of a crossroads regarding our support. Recent success has built up a worldwide interest and as a result a clamour for tickets, particularly for the more glamorous ties. Not so much for the less glamorous ones, as the empty seats around me at the Brentford game proved. This interest has got the money men at the club seeing the pounds signs. Our match day tickets are now often over £60. I'm lucky I have a season ticket but I would absolutely refuse to pay that to watch a football match if I didn't. While I appreciate the massive investment and improvements to both the infrastructure and team it is pointless if local fans cannot afford to attend games. We ignore this at our peril as eventually we will also end up being priced out. It's inevitable.

As for yourself you don't need to get involved or worry about any of this if you choose not to. That applies to anybody of a similar mindset. If these supporters groups have any success we will all benefit. If not nothing changes for you. Enjoy getting to the games when you can as you always do.

Thank you @paulchapo
I think your paragraph about the crossroads is very true. I guess I am just bored of feeling ill and not as involved in 'life' as I used to be so I am poking my nose in to things that I shouldn't really.
I agree that we shouldn't ignore the ticket price rises and the fact that they were making disabled fans pay for the parking etc. Money is the king I guess but we need to keep an eye on it all.

I shall stop poking my nose in :-) and just watch from the side lines because even if you all had a march I would have to be an armchair marcher!!
Gone are my days of Taksin leave our Sven Alone chanting as I walked up Joe Mercer Way. :-)
Thank you again. :-) :-)

 

[paulchapo]

Thank you @paulchapo
I think your paragraph about the crossroads is very true. I guess I am just bored of feeling ill and not as involved in 'life' as I used to be so I am poking my nose in to things that I shouldn't really.
I agree that we shouldn't ignore the ticket price rises and the fact that they were making disabled fans pay for the parking etc. Money is the king I guess but we need to keep an eye on it all.

I shall stop poking my nose in :-) and just watch from the side lines because even if you all had a march I would have to be an armchair marcher!!
Gone are my days of Taksin leave our Sven Alone chanting as I walked up Joe Mercer Way. :-)
Thank you again. :-) :-)

You're allowed to poke your nose in and have a say even from.your armchair lol, no worries.
I was at that Sven march, led by Kevin Parker.
Like yourself, since I took early retirement I'm on here and other online platforms probably more than I should be.

We all hope the club are successful in this 115 charges case we have going on. I can guarantee if we're not and the penalty for losing is harsh we won't be selling £60+ match day tickets and all the new fans and bloggers will go down the drain along with the Manchester rain.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Some nice ideas here but suggesting Khaldoon himself attends City Matters fan meetings is a very silly.

Khaldoon and HRH employ people (and pay them handsomely) to deal with these matters. Khaldoon has far, far more important issues to deal with than ticket prices or the atmosphere at the Etihad. Khaldoons role at City is just one of many global roles he holds and Mubadala will of course take up much of his time. To suggest he fly in from AD for a City matters meeting is absurd.

Why is it silly ? It’s 2 hours out of his time per year and is already a suggestion raised by Alex from CM if you read the link. We’ve had chairmen before who have met the fans and so have clubs of other chairmen ? Meetings could be scheduled around meetings when he is in town. The club are making many PR gaffes. If you run a business it’s in your interests to know what keeps the customers are happy. Otherwise you just surround yourself with yes men and yes women.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Your comments are welcome and as valid as anybody's EB. For myself personally I'm not a member of any supporters group, official or otherwise. I did however get involved with the Swales out protests at Maine Road and was a staunch trade unionists when I was at work. I will always stand up for anything I consider isn't fair or right.

On the subject of 1894 and the supporters clubs I appreciate the time and effort they put in to try and improve things for everybody attending games. Their powers to affect change are however limited as they always were, even at Maine Road. The club might listen and act on their ideas and concerns or it might not. That's life unfortunately it's not a democracy no matter how long we've supported and love the club.

In my humble opinion the club is at a bit of a crossroads regarding our support. Recent success has built up a worldwide interest and as a result a clamour for tickets, particularly for the more glamorous ties. Not so much for the less glamorous ones, as the empty seats around me at the Brentford game proved. This interest has got the money men at the club seeing the pounds signs. Our match day tickets are now often over £60. I'm lucky I have a season ticket but I would absolutely refuse to pay that to watch a football match if I didn't. While I appreciate the massive investment and improvements to both the infrastructure and team it is pointless if local fans cannot afford to attend games. We ignore this at our peril as eventually we will also end up being priced out. It's inevitable.

As for yourself you don't need to get involved or worry about any of this if you choose not to. That applies to anybody of a similar mindset. If these supporters groups have any success we will all benefit. If not nothing changes for you. Enjoy getting to the games when you can as you always do.

If the club made a choice to really listen to fans they might be surprised. 1894 Group don’t want people with no connection/ emotional connection taking the place of a real fan but we have nothing against new fans coming to games, having a larger support worldwide is healthy.

1894 Group has a membership which is roughly 50% local and 50% nationwide/rest of the world. We get many donations from the rest of the world. We get people designing displays for free. They feel a connection with the version of City we are showing them. The club presents a very commercial version. We have people from syria, phillipines, brazil, japan, iran all of whom have said we buy into what it means to be City. We’d love to experience a City game at the Etihad or have been to a game at Maine Rd.

They buy into Kinkladze and Rosler. They buy into the stories of the past. You say it’s a crossroads but we are trying to say to the club make it value for money for all fans, be it new fans, even corporate fans. They should come here and go wow I totally get what it is to be City. It’s no good them leaving and going , well that was disappointing, the whole ground sat in silence because no one knew each other.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

Sorry to butt in but I am just (practising) playing Devil's Advocate here:

@nmc is correct when (s)he says that Angela Worrall might not have agreed with the statement and is entitled to have an opinion.

The whole point of a committee/group of this kind is to get opinions not for them all to follow blindly like sheep.

Whilst the CM and the 1894 group appear to be adopting a role representing the fans I am not 100% sure how this came about.
I know how the CM representatives were chosen and elected although 1894 seem to be disagreeing with how this is done. How were 1894 group elected?
If we have CM, 1894 and the OSC why do we need another group?
Who would elect/choose/decide on how the other group is made up?

Maybe most of the fans are quite happy/resigned to the way things are run. Maybe they just want to go to the match and enjoy the football. Yes they might have little moans about transport, food, seating (although the club have explained the seating of the away fans over and over again) and the atmosphere but it's not the end of the world if they don't get it the way the fans want it.
This is not the City of Maine Road any more really, we love to think we are a family club who look after the fans and to be honest (this may be where my DA falls down a bit) I think they do an ok job. Not perfect but ok. If it were perfect they would have nothing to strive for would they?

Basically what I am wondering in my DA voice is what is it the CM people and 1894 want?
Do they feel that they should be running the club? Do they feel that they should be the ones making decisions on pricing etc., not the club who have poured millions, if not billions, of pounds into the infrastructure and the building and the players/coaches/academy etc.

Just a few random thoughts. Sorry if I offend anyone, that is not my intention I am just curious and want (like all of you) what is best for the club I love, the club I have supported for many, many years. :-) :-)
Apologies also if it is just a ramble but I feel that all this is taking away from our football enjoyment.
JMHO

To add to the replies here : of course reps can have their ie personal opinion but if the mood of the fan base is totally different they have to make the point of behalf of everyone else. And learn from that by actually taking seriously those comcerns.

CM is who the club meet but it’s not fully independent and Disabilities Rep aside the shortlisting done by multiple people at the club.

Suggestions from fans are regularly watered down or blocked and we are going public do that the club can see the chair has support for his reform proposals so that the club don’t continually kick the can which is change down the road again. The next meeting we hear os week commencing 14th october.

We’ll be encouraging supporters to mail the reps in advance of all meetings so that they feel empowered by knowing what fans want them to say. Anyone who puts themselves up for fan representation really should expect to receive mails and expect to be held to account a little bit. One of the new members Brian Worrall made the point specifically in his pitch that he wanted fans to start mailing in before and after each meeting. We think that’s a positive attitude and should be the norm.

We at 1894 get a lot of mails also but the main difference between ourselves and CM is that the club don’t recognise 1894 as being an organisation to conduct negotiations with so we can only influence CM and if the governance of CM is falling short we have to say publicly to the club you need to make changes such as making it fully independent- otherwise what confidence remains in the CM process gets strained even more.

We campaign on things that directly or indirectly affect the atmosphere. This happened more and more because no one else in the City support was doing this so fans wanted us to speak out.

So we had out first election this year and elections are annual so we are democratic and try to pass on the views of our members as well as the wider fanbase.

 

[Manchester33]

@Manchester33 thank you for your concise yet thorough response and I hope you understand that I am just curious. I have been involved in and held office in my trade union for years and am always nosy and like to see how things are run and the history of them.
I also hope that I have not offended anyone, especially the 1894 group who do a great job with the banners and displays (& of course when you have one that says John Stones is the greatest player ever ;-) then you will be doing a magnificent, fantastic etc job)

The paragraph I have highlighted in Blue is just exactly what I wanted to hear in my heart, because I knew that you are fighting for the fans and I'm with you all the way, although these days I keep my campaigning to signing petitions and encouraging others because I've done my share I think. (Sorry)

I remember the old days at Maine Road when we had the supporters club with the variety and cabaret acts at weekends. My ex-husband was a friend of people involved even though he wasn't that interested in football. (go figure) I follow this club because it is still in my mind our club, and I vaguely remember when I first found Blue Moon forum saying that owners come and owners go, players come and players go but the one constant is Manchester City our football club. That has never changed in all my 68 or so years of supporting us.

Thank you again and as I say I hope you weren't offended at anything I wrote and understood/understand where I am coming from. I know it is a bit of a glib statement but City till I die.

MANCHESTER CITY THE BEST FANS IN THE LAND AND ALL THE WORLD

No offence taken!

Thank you for asking questions and being interested. :)

 

[Eds]

What is interesting is how other listen or not to various fan groups and why. I seem to recall a few years ago the dippers protesting about season card increases and the club mage a u-turn. Spurs fans were up in arms a few months ago about ticket increases and I think no concession prices and the club said f-you. Rags moan about a lot and the club seem to listen on a few occasions so for them no automatic cup scheme, price freezes etc. We shamed the club into a u-turn on disabled prices but in the main they go ahead and do what they want. Most recently the shambles of ticket allocation for the CL semi, their silence on the CL final shambles, away ticket allocations, continual price increases etc. CM apparently puts forward many sensible ideas but very few are accepted by the club, or so it seems.