1978-79 | The self-implosion of Manchester City

[Didsbury Dave]

Just a suggestion @Ric, but if possible it would be brilliant if we could make a classic posts thread in the Classic Threads Forum so posts like the above are maintained and not lost to history as the forum moves along. Essential reading for any blues interested in the Clubs history.

There's a simple way to do this, because it's a great thread already. Copy @petrusha 's post, edit your original post and insert it as an answer to your original post. Then the whole thread could be moved by @Ric or whoever to the classics.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

Just wanted to thank everyone who’s contributed to this thread. I’m a massive history buff (especially where the blues are concerned) & wasn’t even alive during this period, but after some of the incredible insights on here I feel like I was there!

Wasn’t sure on posting it initially due to the above, but I’m so glad I did now. There are so many layers to the history of Manchester City, both good & bad. I think it can be argued we are one of the most storied club in English football, we’ve experienced it all.

Thanks you for starting it. Threads like this not only provide a good opportunity to look back and shares insights of previous eras but are usually quite cordial without resorting to name calling etc.

 

[petrusha]

Thanks to various posters for more kind words. A couple of things to respond to since last night.

Haha. I don't even remember that thread. Always us lot, the same old party bores, contributing to these 70s/80s history threads!

Hope you're well mate. I forgot to thank you for the brilliant post in this thred last week which went into ten times the forensic detail that I could remember from 78-79.

Yes, I remember when we used to have a separate history sub-forum. I really enjoyed it but I understand why Admin pulled it, as it did often seem that the same four or five of us were responsible for all the posts in there. ;)

Was it genuine and that we couldve had Clough?
or a possible case or Swales giving it the big un , “yeah couldve had him, didnt want him” in a sort of school boy ,”yeah coulda shagged the fittest bird in the year, couldnt be bothered” sort of way?

The stars definitely aligned for us to have a fantastic chance of landing Clough in October 1973, had we chosen to pursue him. I've checked the dates in the past and Johnny Hart, who'd stepped into the job when Allison left for Palace seven months earlier, went on sick leave after Clough had left Derby but before he agreed to take the job at Brighton at the start of November. We were reported at the time as having held talks with him, but they came to nothing.

It's hard not to think that he'd definitely have taken our job if offered it, given that he was prepared to drop to a Third Division club in the south (he was quite open about loathing the south of England). This was just after Swales had stepped up and become chairman, and it's impossible to imagine Swales favouring the recruitment of Clough. However, it's possible that the board as a whole were put off him because of his open warfare with the Derby directors, which had at that stage damaged his reputation to some degree.

IIRC, @Gary James has posted in the past that Clough was interested in the City job in October 1980, as well (Gary will no doubt correct that if I'm wrong). Had we made a serious move for Clough, I'm not sure how likely he would have been to do what John Bond did and leave his current job for us.

He was also linked in the press with our job after we went down in 1983. I had the impression with that one that he might have been reminding Forest of his value with a view to attracting an offer of an improved contract, but I don't know for sure.

 

[paulchapo]

Thanks to various posters for more kind words. A couple of things to respond to since last night.



Yes, I remember when we used to have a separate history sub-forum. I really enjoyed it but I understand why Admin pulled it, as it did often seem that the same four or five of us were responsible for all the posts in there. ;)



The stars definitely aligned for us to have a fantastic chance of landing Clough in October 1973, had we chosen to pursue him. I've checked the dates in the past and Johnny Hart, who'd stepped into the job when Allison left for Palace seven months earlier, went on sick leave after Clough had left Derby but before he agreed to take the job at Brighton at the start of November. We were reported at the time as having held talks with him, but they came to nothing.

It's hard not to think that he'd definitely have taken our job if offered it, given that he was prepared to drop to a Third Division club in the south (he was quite open about loathing the south of England). This was just after Swales had stepped up and become chairman, and it's impossible to imagine Swales favouring the recruitment of Clough. However, it's possible that the board as a whole were put off him because of his open warfare with the Derby directors, which had at that stage damaged his reputation to some degree.

IIRC, @Gary James has posted in the past that Clough was interested in the City job in October 1980, as well (Gary will no doubt correct that if I'm wrong). Had we made a serious move for Clough, I'm not sure how likely he would have been to do what John Bond did and leave his current job for us.

He was also linked in the press with our job after we went down in 1983. I had the impression with that one that he might have been reminding Forest of his value with a view to attracting an offer of an improved contract, but I don't know for sure.

There was a game when we played Forest at home during a bus strike in Manchester, no trams in those days either. I was at the game and think it was 0-0. After the game Clough was full of praise for our fans, saying something like, "38,000 and no buses to get to the ground is remarkable, they don't need a manager do they?"

It's a long time ago now but it went something like this.

 

[Gary James]

Was it genuine and that we couldve had Clough?
or a possible case or Swales giving it the big un , “yeah couldve had him, didnt want him” in a sort of school boy ,”yeah coulda shagged the fittest bird in the year, couldnt be bothered” sort of way?

Yes it was genuine.

 

[paulchapo]

Yes it was genuine.

Bloody hell what might have been eh? Of course it could have turned into another Leeds but there again it might not have. I guess it depends at what time he would have come

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Thanks to various posters for more kind words. A couple of things to respond to since last night.



Yes, I remember when we used to have a separate history sub-forum. I really enjoyed it but I understand why Admin pulled it, as it did often seem that the same four or five of us were responsible for all the posts in there. ;)



The stars definitely aligned for us to have a fantastic chance of landing Clough in October 1973, had we chosen to pursue him. I've checked the dates in the past and Johnny Hart, who'd stepped into the job when Allison left for Palace seven months earlier, went on sick leave after Clough had left Derby but before he agreed to take the job at Brighton at the start of November. We were reported at the time as having held talks with him, but they came to nothing.

It's hard not to think that he'd definitely have taken our job if offered it, given that he was prepared to drop to a Third Division club in the south (he was quite open about loathing the south of England). This was just after Swales had stepped up and become chairman, and it's impossible to imagine Swales favouring the recruitment of Clough. However, it's possible that the board as a whole were put off him because of his open warfare with the Derby directors, which had at that stage damaged his reputation to some degree.

IIRC, @Gary James[ as we plunged down the table/USER] has posted in the past that Clough was interested in the City job in October 1980, as well (Gary will no doubt correct that if I'm wrong). Had we made a serious move for Clough, I'm not sure how likely he would have been to do what John Bond did and leave his current job for us.

He was also linked in the press with our job after we went down in 1983. I had the impression with that one that he might have been reminding Forest of his value with a view to attracting an offer of an improved contract, but I don't know for sure.
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[QUOTE="petrusha, post: 14345041, member: 42330"]
I haven't had access to any documents or any club sources so I'm simply reporting opinions formed at the time, based probably on newspaper reports and gossip after our relegation in 1983. We had seen this as a growing possibility in the early months of '83 but an away win at Brighton our penultimate game seemed to have saved us with only a home match to Luton left. We lost it in the last 5 minutes and relegation was bound to focus attention on a chairman who had promised so much and wrought such destruction on every aspect of the club. If I remember correctly there was talk of a take over and a new chairman. I think the MEN eventually urged shareholders to stick with Swales "because he's a blue to the core"!! I don't think Swales would ever have stomached as outspoken a manager as Clough, but at the same time as, or in the immediate aftermath of, a take over to get rid of Swales hinself .... At the same time I believe there was considerable support for another attempt to bring Malcolm Allison back to the club and let him loose with the cheque book in the hope he could pull the miracle off this time. Hopefully these were simply nightmares, but they have always seemed much more likely to be true reflections of the shrewd, analytical thinking at the club during the Swales era.

I do remember Alan Oakes recommending Ian Rush to City and the rejection which ensued. City seemed to have no manners at the time and Alan Oakes, veteran of 564 games for City, was treated with what amounted to an icy contempt. Rush's career didn't seem to be derailed too badly. I have no memory of a link with Dalgleish.

I don't know what's happened here! The second post which goes under your name is actually mine so I state here openly that the stigma for such opinions is entirely mine!

 

[chaddblue]

Yes it was genuine.

Not sure Clough would have lasted 5 minutes with that lunatic as his boss

 

[denislawsbackheel]

We might have signed Clough.
And the players might have done to him what they did to Saunders.

 

[Bluesince1979]

Some truly insightful posts , ive loved it.
Still waiting for “The Lee Years” by @petrusha and @Gary James ;)