1978-79 | The self-implosion of Manchester City

[Scaring Europe to Death]

There's an interview on You Tube (can't remember if it's Frost or Parkinson), just after Clough had left Brighton when he admits that he would never have taken the job if he'd known that the Manchester City job had become available. Presumably, he's referring to Johnny Hart's resignation in October 73

Thanks to various posters for more kind words. A couple of things to respond to since last night.



Yes, I remember when we used to have a separate history sub-forum. I really enjoyed it but I understand why Admin pulled it, as it did often seem that the same four or five of us were responsible for all the posts in there. ;)



The stars definitely aligned for us to have a fantastic chance of landing Clough in October 1973, had we chosen to pursue him. I've checked the dates in the past and Johnny Hart, who'd stepped into the job when Allison left for Palace seven months earlier, went on sick leave after Clough had left Derby but before he agreed to take the job at Brighton at the start of November. We were reported at the time as having held talks with him, but they came to nothing.

It's hard not to think that he'd definitely have taken our job if offered it, given that he was prepared to drop to a Third Division club in the south (he was quite open about loathing the south of England). This was just after Swales had stepped up and become chairman, and it's impossible to imagine Swales favouring the recruitment of Clough. However, it's possible that the board as a whole were put off him because of his open warfare with the Derby directors, which had at that stage damaged his reputation to some degree.

IIRC, @Gary James has posted in the past that Clough was interested in the City job in October 1980, as well (Gary will no doubt correct that if I'm wrong). Had we made a serious move for Clough, I'm not sure how likely he would have been to do what John Bond did and leave his current job for us.

He was also linked in the press with our job after we went down in 1983. I had the impression with that one that he might have been reminding Forest of his value with a view to attracting an offer of an improved contract, but I don't know for sure.

There's an interview on You Tube (can't remember if it's Frost or Parkinson), just after Clough had left Brighton when he admits that he would never have taken the job if he'd known that the Manchester City job had become available. Presumably, he's referring to Johnny Hart's resignation in October 73

 

[1961_vintage]

Anyway, there you have it. The story of how City were shafted for years by having major shareholders who didn't care, an egotistical chairman on the make, and a bunch of spineless toadies who were clinging to their directors' privileges in his wake, too weak-willed and cowardly to stand up for the right thing. It's a good job we're decent these days, or else writing this stuff would make me want to go and slash my wrists.

I can only hope that the act of doing so was in some ways cathartic for you @petrusha.

Once again - thanks for sharing these priceless insights in what is an outstanding contribution to this Forum.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

I think anyone who wishes to write a history of City from the late 1970s to the mid 1980s and even later faces a real problem. Writing history always requires a detachment and perspective that only comes with time. But I think even now any objectivity in City's case is virtually impossible and will probably remain so for many years to come. I love talking about City's and football's history with friends and family, but touch on this period at our club and I metamorphose into a red faced, cursing maniac. And on here it is clear that the sense of injury at the outrage suffered still isn't really skin deep yet. The feelings of insult, offence and humiliation suffered will not even feel much less raw for many years, if ever. The degree of insanity, arrogance and stupidity was so extreme, the level of ignorance, the lack of self-awareness and self-knowledge so mind bogglingly total and the absence of even the most minuscule shred of remorse so complete that to chronicle this period in City's history with anything like objectivity will defeat writers for years to come. I exclude, of course, Gary from these comments and congratulate him on his work to show that this horrendous episode is an aberration and that our club is a great club with a great history.

And we stuffed the rags on Saturday.

 

[petrusha]

There's an interview on You Tube (can't remember if it's Frost or Parkinson), just after Clough had left Brighton when he admits that he would never have taken the job if he'd known that the Manchester City job had become available. Presumably, he's referring to Johnny Hart's resignation in October 73

I've seen the interview on YouTube and will try to dig it out tomorrow. It's getting late where I am, I'm moderately drunk now, and I have work in the morning.

The interview you're referring to is with David Frost and was done after Clough was fired by Leeds. Clough is wearing, IIRC, a kind of cream-coloured pullover and red shirt.

We'll see what the wording is when I find it, but my memory is that he wasn't quite as direct as you describe. I think he skirted the issue when asked about the City job.

I agree that the definite impression was that he wished he'd gone to City at that time. But I doubt he had the choice and don't think he wanted to admit that when interviewed on primetime TV.

 

[JGL07]

If only eh? Clough went on to win the league with Forest and the European cup twice, Saunders went on to win the league with Villa, and his side won the European Cup (he left after they had reached the QF)

Well George Graham won plenty at Arsenal but I wouldn’t have wanted him anywhere near City.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Who pocketed the money from the fiddled attendances? 1 person? A number of people? It certainly wasn't a tax fiddle and put back into the club, thats for sure.

 

[petrusha]

Well George Graham won plenty at Arsenal but I wouldn’t have wanted him anywhere near City.

Really? Around the time that Graham was at least a notional possibility for us, our permanent appointments were Ball, Coppell and then Clark. I'd personally have taken him over any of them.

 

[LongsightM13]

I've seen the interview on YouTube and will try to dig it out tomorrow. It's getting late where I am, I'm moderately drunk now, and I have work in the morning.

The interview you're referring to is with David Frost and was done after Clough was fired by Leeds. Clough is wearing, IIRC, a kind of cream-coloured pullover and red shirt.

We'll see what the wording is when I find it, but my memory is that he wasn't quite as direct as you describe. I think he skirted the issue when asked about the City job.

I agree that the definite impression was that he wished he'd gone to City at that time. But I doubt he had the choice and don't think he wanted to admit that when interviewed on primetime TV.

From 9:45

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Really? Around the time that Graham was at least a notional possibility for us, our permanent appointments were Ball, Coppell and then Clark. I'd personally have taken him over any of them.

He used us imo, then got the Leeds job.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I've seen the interview on YouTube and will try to dig it out tomorrow. It's getting late where I am, I'm moderately drunk now, and I have work in the morning.

The interview you're referring to is with David Frost and was done after Clough was fired by Leeds. Clough is wearing, IIRC, a kind of cream-coloured pullover and red shirt.

We'll see what the wording is when I find it, but my memory is that he wasn't quite as direct as you describe. I think he skirted the issue when asked about the City job.

I agree that the definite impression was that he wished he'd gone to City at that time. But I doubt he had the choice and don't think he wanted to admit that when interviewed on primetime TV.

I know the one you're referring to, and I saw it tonight whilst trying to find the other one