We won the league and played some great football last year with the 4-4-2; beating the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs despite being outnumbered in midfield. We're using the same system this year, same players, so why is it distinctly less successful this year?
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4-4-2: What's different this year?
- Thread starter Blue Elmo
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aguero93:20
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Probably hunger and the element of surprise.
Sergi0 Na5r1
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Number of things:
1. It was never too successful against the top teams. I think chris85mcfc posted stats in the Pellegrini thread and it was 13/36 points against the other top 4 teams in the PL last year. It was never very successful in Europe either.
2. Some other teams have gotten used to the tactic and now crowd out the midfield and MP refuses to change when needed.
3. Yaya is looking like he has a more dominant effect when further up midfield than at the back where he has to run around chasing after the ball. It's a job for a young CDM. Unfortunately Nando has not worked out and Yaya too was away for a notable part of the season.
4. Squad rotation is inefficient and we have overplayed certain players - adding to fatigue or injury. Lack of scouting for young talent or using academy players in certain games (like vs Newcastle in the League Cup).
1. It was never too successful against the top teams. I think chris85mcfc posted stats in the Pellegrini thread and it was 13/36 points against the other top 4 teams in the PL last year. It was never very successful in Europe either.
2. Some other teams have gotten used to the tactic and now crowd out the midfield and MP refuses to change when needed.
3. Yaya is looking like he has a more dominant effect when further up midfield than at the back where he has to run around chasing after the ball. It's a job for a young CDM. Unfortunately Nando has not worked out and Yaya too was away for a notable part of the season.
4. Squad rotation is inefficient and we have overplayed certain players - adding to fatigue or injury. Lack of scouting for young talent or using academy players in certain games (like vs Newcastle in the League Cup).
I'm With Stupid
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I've got no idea. But it seems clear to me that we're creating less chances this year compared to last. We seem less effective around the box, even when we're controlling the game. And at the other end, we've been less well organised (and we weren't exactly rock solid last year).
I think Yaya's intensity has gone down. He's not making those powerful runs he did last year, and he's not getting into the shooting positions he did last year (or perhaps he's being more closely guarded on the edge of the box).
I'm not seeing as many crosses into the box. Last year, Kolarov and Navas created some great chances with pacey, early crosses into the box.
Our corners are even worse.
But basically, I think it was always a vulnerable system, it's just that last year, we could outscore anyone in the league. This season, our forward play is nowhere near as good (with the odd exception), and defensively, we're just as vulnerable.
I think Yaya's intensity has gone down. He's not making those powerful runs he did last year, and he's not getting into the shooting positions he did last year (or perhaps he's being more closely guarded on the edge of the box).
I'm not seeing as many crosses into the box. Last year, Kolarov and Navas created some great chances with pacey, early crosses into the box.
Our corners are even worse.
But basically, I think it was always a vulnerable system, it's just that last year, we could outscore anyone in the league. This season, our forward play is nowhere near as good (with the odd exception), and defensively, we're just as vulnerable.
We lost away at Liverpool last year. We started with 1 upfront against Barca last year and lost. Chelsea have bought 3 top class players since last January and we've bought 0 top class players. So it's not really all because of the 442 but it's very popular to say it is at the moment.
Same players in name only, most are considerably weaker than they were last year.
Joe Hart: Slightly improved from last year
Zaba: a lot weaker than last year
Clichy: About the same to slightly improved depending on what part of the season you are talking about.
Kompany: great depreciation from last year.
Demi: About the same
Nasri: About the same ( consistently inconsistent)
Silva: About the same to slight depreciation.
Yaya: Greater depreciation.
Dihno: Slight depreciation.
Aguero: About the same. Great, then injury marred.
Dzeko: AbouT the same.
Others
Milner, Navas, Jovetic and are all about the same. Bony hasn't replaced Negredos performance
Fernando hasn't replaced Garcia's performance
Mangala has been at about Lescotts level.
So in essence outside of Joe ( who is returning from an insane dip in form) Only Clichy has been an improvement on his last year's performance.
Everyone else has stagnated or dropped.
So we are considerably weaker than it looks on paper.
So yeah, its silly to think we'd be as effective as last year.
Clearly, age is an issue. We are just an older team, and we bought last summer, specifically to win that season. Every player was in his late 20s. So its no surprise we are going to have lots of holes to plug.
Hopefully, we do it with longer term prospects.
Joe Hart: Slightly improved from last year
Zaba: a lot weaker than last year
Clichy: About the same to slightly improved depending on what part of the season you are talking about.
Kompany: great depreciation from last year.
Demi: About the same
Nasri: About the same ( consistently inconsistent)
Silva: About the same to slight depreciation.
Yaya: Greater depreciation.
Dihno: Slight depreciation.
Aguero: About the same. Great, then injury marred.
Dzeko: AbouT the same.
Others
Milner, Navas, Jovetic and are all about the same. Bony hasn't replaced Negredos performance
Fernando hasn't replaced Garcia's performance
Mangala has been at about Lescotts level.
So in essence outside of Joe ( who is returning from an insane dip in form) Only Clichy has been an improvement on his last year's performance.
Everyone else has stagnated or dropped.
So we are considerably weaker than it looks on paper.
So yeah, its silly to think we'd be as effective as last year.
Clearly, age is an issue. We are just an older team, and we bought last summer, specifically to win that season. Every player was in his late 20s. So its no surprise we are going to have lots of holes to plug.
Hopefully, we do it with longer term prospects.
tiggsywiggsywoo
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Poor, and I mean poor motivation. Ability is still present, but no consistent desire. Its exactly the same mentality we saw in the FA Cup final debacle.
Millwallawayveteran1988
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We took Stoke, QPR, Burnley and Hull for granted and we have paid the price for that. They are four games we would win 95% of the time. We were fortunate to get points in some of them.
We also took Newcastle reserves and Middlesborough for granted although the whole club is to blame for the latter one, flying back from the Middle East the day before a game was a stupid decision.
Sloppy, unprofessional and costly.
Due to that we then had must win games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool and due to one reason or another and probably pressure from having to win we took 1 out of 9.
We have started games too slowly at home, let too many stupid goals in, had no plan B or C when needed.
We signed average or poor players for silly money and who were not even ready to start the season in Mangala's case.
Our usually reliable defenders Kompany and Zabaleta have been poor.
Yaya went to ACON and despite missing him the last time we went, we didn't seem to have a plan for this.
Other than that it's been business as usual....
We also took Newcastle reserves and Middlesborough for granted although the whole club is to blame for the latter one, flying back from the Middle East the day before a game was a stupid decision.
Sloppy, unprofessional and costly.
Due to that we then had must win games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool and due to one reason or another and probably pressure from having to win we took 1 out of 9.
We have started games too slowly at home, let too many stupid goals in, had no plan B or C when needed.
We signed average or poor players for silly money and who were not even ready to start the season in Mangala's case.
Our usually reliable defenders Kompany and Zabaleta have been poor.
Yaya went to ACON and despite missing him the last time we went, we didn't seem to have a plan for this.
Other than that it's been business as usual....
Gorton_Tubster
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It's less successful because MOTD say it is then the sheep-fans start to say it is. The problem isnt what formation we play imo.
Take the Barca game, we played 442 in both halves, shit in the first and less shit in the 2nd half. Lol
Take the Barca game, we played 442 in both halves, shit in the first and less shit in the 2nd half. Lol
Sergi0 Na5r1
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tramazi said:It's less successful because MOTD say it is then the sheep-fans start to say it is. The problem isnt what formation we play imo.
Take the Barca game, we played 442 in both halves, shit in the first and less shit in the 2nd half. Lol
MOTD or any other shite commentary doesn't need to say a thing. It was a glaring issue on the pitch during the match in both games, more in the Liverpool. I don't see how the second line of your comment proves anything (either better or worse) maybe even confirms the point..