737-8 max plane goes down (2018) - new not Max crash Indonesia

I don't know if there are type trained pilots on here but I will ask any way. I watched the aircrash investigation program on the Kegworth 737 crash, 2 experienced pilots on the older version of 737 but short of hours on the new version (which crashed). For their conversion training they did not go through a cockpit simulator only a classroom training session.
Is the conversion from 737-800 to 737 Max-8 a compulsory simulator training or is it at the airlines discretion. Also, is there any major cockpit changes from the 800 to the max that could cause confusion for the pilots?
 
CityWest said:
The worst part of a go around as a passenger is that the pilots are understandably too busy to make a PA to let you know why.
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Usually make a PA on the downwind for another landing. It’s not that busy once you’ve got the gear up and reached your climbout speed for the flap setting you are going to use for the second pattern.

Why is that disconcerting to you? Is it just not knowing, or is there some reason that would concern you more than others?

Usually, it is spacing on the aircraft ahead that has either been reduced too far, or that they failed to clear the runway where the controller thought he would.

That exact scenario happened on my last flight into ORD in the weather, actually. American missed the hi speed exit. Thankfully, it was ORD (Chicago) and the controllers are AWESOME!

We got to about 100’ feet before American finally cleared, but ATC let us keep coming down, because American exited over a mile down the runway and managed to clear just in time. We landed normally, no one got excited, and the passengers didn’t know a thing! However, I RE-briefed the go around procedure as I watched it unfold, just in case.

:-)
 
RadcliffeRick said:
Down to the power of the RB211's!! Great engines in both commercial flight and industrial use.
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Tbh, not sure which motors on the UAL 757s anymore, but we were pretty much a Pratt airline (Boeing, Pratt & United all uses to be the same company!). I know the CAL birds have Rolls motors, though!

It is really sad they discontinued that aircraft as I don’t know a single person who has flown it that hasn’t loved it!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Tbh, not sure which motors on the UAL 757s anymore, but we were pretty much a Pratt airline (Boeing, Pratt & United all uses to be the same company!). I know the CAL birds have Rolls motors, though!

It is really sad they discontinued that aircraft as I don’t know a single person who has flown it that hasn’t loved it!
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Some years ago we flew many times on Astraeus with Bruce Dickinson as the pilot. These were charter flights from Gatwick to Uralsk in Kazakhstan.
 
BTW, at the Training Center the latest on Lion Air is unreliable airspeed appears to be the focus. Went in very fast!!!

Thing is 4 degrees aicraft nose up and about 75-80% N1 engine power and you could fly around all day until running out of fuel. No excuse for losing a new jet for that... although it will wake you up in a hurry if you weren’t already on your best day!!!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Visiting Borat?! ;-)
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RadcliffeRick said:
Some years ago we flew many times on Astraeus with Bruce Dickinson as the pilot. These were charter flights from Gatwick to Uralsk in Kazakhstan.
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Flew to Rhodes with Astraeus, I remember reading the brochure about Bruce Dickinson, he piloted a plane full of Iron Maiden fans from the UK to, I think it was Eastern Europe, did a gig with the Band and then flew them back again. He’s obviously not your archetypel rock star who shoves the Devil’s Dandruff up his hooter!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Usually make a PA on the downwind for another landing. It’s not that busy once you’ve got the gear up and reached your climbout speed for the flap setting you are going to use for the second pattern.

Why is that disconcerting to you? Is it just not knowing, or is there some reason that would concern you more than others?

Usually, it is spacing on the aircraft ahead that has either been reduced too far, or that they failed to clear the runway where the controller thought he would.

That exact scenario happened on my last flight into ORD in the weather, actually. American missed the hi speed exit. Thankfully, it was ORD (Chicago) and the controllers are AWESOME!

We got to about 100’ feet before American finally cleared, but ATC let us keep coming down, because American exited over a mile down the runway and managed to clear just in time. We landed normally, no one got excited, and the passengers didn’t know a thing! However, I RE-briefed the go around procedure as I watched it unfold, just in case.

:-)
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For me personally it doesn't bother me as I love flying and having worked for an airline have been lucky enough to be in the flight deck for 2 go arounds. I remember it being a hectic few minutes. I can just imagine that thinking you're about to land one minute then being taken back up the next, that initial change might scare people.
 
CityWest said:
For me personally it doesn't bother me as I love flying and having worked for an airline have been lucky enough to be in the flight deck for 2 go arounds. I remember it being a hectic few minutes. I can just imagine that thinking you're about to land one minute then being taken back up the next, that initial change might scare people.
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It does - because most people aren't regular fliers, so will have never experienced it before and don't know what's happening. You always get screams when it happens.
 
This graph on the BBC shows the issues they were having, the top one height and speed of the crash flight, and the bottom one the same time span of the previous days flight (I assume a different airframe).
_104101005_indonesia_plane_crash_flight_path_640_v4-3x-nc.png
 
cleavers said:
This graph on the BBC shows the issues they were having, the top one height and speed of the crash flight, and the bottom one the same time span of the previous days flight (I assume a different airframe).
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Seems to me they were having serious airspeed/handling problems, that first minute of the graph is key.

~330kts at 2,000 ft is far too fast and will likely cause structural damage.

Flaps are typically still out at that altitude too and at that speed they aren't staying in one piece.
 
cleavers said:
This graph on the BBC shows the issues they were having, the top one height and speed of the crash flight, and the bottom one the same time span of the previous days flight (I assume a different airframe).
_104101005_indonesia_plane_crash_flight_path_640_v4-3x-nc.png
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I think the question now is did lionair fix the issues from the previous day?

A passenger on that flight has spoken to a tv company out there and said the flight was very erratic. Up and down like a rollercoaster on the climb out. Passengers screaming. The pilots flew the entire flight at 28000 feet, they had conflicting air speed info.

Something was wrong with that plane and the first flight was lucky.

There should never have been a 2nd one.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Straightforward, but we DO have a shorter touchdown zone.

They got rid of the crazy NA dept and just do an ICAO departure with a little turn over the marshland between the airport and Newport Beach.

Go in there all the time and tbh it is all the little General Aviation aircraft that are of far greater concern.
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Makes sense.

By the way, Al Haynes and his crew are personal heroes of mine. As much credit as Sully deservedly gets, Haynes ability to save the lives of 2/3rds of the people on United 232 in an effectively impossible control situation was truly amazing. Incredible men of great resourcefulness and courage.
 
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