A moral victory is no victory at all - Mentality is the key

Damocles said:
we are realistically in with a chance of going from finishing 5th last season, to winning the title this year. Anyone who still wants to play it down is hiding behind that old City mentality mentioned at the start.

Rubbish. We can't win the title, because unlike Chelsea and United, we don't have the consistency of play to win 10 games on the bounce.

Shouting "ra-ra-ra" is great and everything, but been second in a poor league, mainly due to the fact that we have only actually played Arsenal and Spurs away doesn't somehow mean that we are now world beaters.

We are still inconsistent, we still bottle big occasions, and we still haven't clicked as a team.

People are that desperate for this to happen, that they are trying to force it instead of been legitimately proud of where we are, it's never enough for some.

Put down your copy of the Mirror.

I love this "we're only second because other teams are poor" thing. That's sort of how a league works. Your position is based on how other teams do as well as your own performances.

Yesterday was a "big occasion" and we certainly didn't bottle it. And it's obvious that we're becoming a better team by the game, which is why we have the best away record in the league and the best defence.
 
I don't accept the argument, Jo is more disciplined defensively, or keeps the ball better.

neither do I.

but I'm pretty sure it's down to him being a target for Hart's clearances, to compensate for Tev being a short arse.
 
baldybouncer said:
Damocles said:
Rubbish. We can't win the title, because unlike Chelsea and United, we don't have the consistency of play to win 10 games on the bounce.

Shouting "ra-ra-ra" is great and everything, but been second in a poor league, mainly due to the fact that we have only actually played Arsenal and Spurs away doesn't somehow mean that we are now world beaters.

We are still inconsistent, we still bottle big occasions, and we still haven't clicked as a team.

People are that desperate for this to happen, that they are trying to force it instead of been legitimately proud of where we are, it's never enough for some.

You're entitled to your opinion but you are so wrong on all counts in your statement!

Which ones? The inconsistency one? The fact that we continue to bottle big games? The fact that we still haven't clicked? The fact that we've only been to two away grounds that are big games?

Oh, and Kaini, I don't read the Mirror, you fool, I just have an opinion that stretches back further than the past 5 games. Also, yesterday wasn't a big occasion with a lot riding on it. Yesterday was your typical big 4 game. Big occasions are the times where we have to win to go top, or we have to win to get into the top four, etc. Games where there's an awful lot on it, and we have still yet to fix the problem of us throwing it away. Remember Everton this year? That was us bottling a big game.
 
Chick Counterfly said:
I don't accept the argument, Jo is more disciplined defensively, or keeps the ball better.

neither do I.

but I'm pretty sure it's down to him being a target for Hart's clearances, to compensate for Tev being a short arse.

I'd say you're right. And his ability to tuck in up front when Tevez drops back.

Pity he can't play or it might have been more effective
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Damocles said:
Rubbish. We can't win the title, because unlike Chelsea and United, we don't have the consistency of play to win 10 games on the bounce.

Shouting "ra-ra-ra" is great and everything, but been second in a poor league, mainly due to the fact that we have only actually played Arsenal and Spurs away doesn't somehow mean that we are now world beaters.

We are still inconsistent, we still bottle big occasions, and we still haven't clicked as a team.

People are that desperate for this to happen, that they are trying to force it instead of been legitimately proud of where we are, it's never enough for some.

If you are the best team in the country then you should look to win the title.

I've said this all season. We have miles more strength in depth than Chelsea, Arsenal and United. They can all put out good 11s but United's is unquestionably greater than the sum of it's parts. Chelsea's is aging and patchy and Arsenal's is inconsistent.

All this "gelling" stuff is an excuse now. We're got our formation, we've got our style of play and we know what we are doing.

Nonsense to say we "can't" win the title. I don't believe we will, but I believe we should be trying. We need a plan "B" against defensive teams and that should be balls in the box and penetration on the flanks. And we need to go to places like Old TRafford and be bold.

I'm feeling a little odd right now.
I fully agree with Didsbury Dave on this.
"Nurse!"
 
i disagree with who say "we have the best league squad".

i believe we lack both in quality and , consequently , in real strengh in depth.

even though I love their commitment i have to say that players like zabaleta , barry , and , in a way , de jong too , are noth good enough for a top top team , and when we need them to play all the quality of the team fell alarmingly.
we lack a silva reserve.
and we have i dont know how many of the 25 squad men who are just names on the paper .

i also believe that this all is normal , becouse , at the end of the day , this is a squad that has just start to be builded , its not the fruit of years and years of selection like other squad instead are.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Damocles said:
Rubbish. We can't win the title, because unlike Chelsea and United, we don't have the consistency of play to win 10 games on the bounce.

Shouting "ra-ra-ra" is great and everything, but been second in a poor league, mainly due to the fact that we have only actually played Arsenal and Spurs away doesn't somehow mean that we are now world beaters.

We are still inconsistent, we still bottle big occasions, and we still haven't clicked as a team.

People are that desperate for this to happen, that they are trying to force it instead of been legitimately proud of where we are, it's never enough for some.

If you are the best team in the country then you should look to win the title.

I've said this all season. We have miles more strength in depth than Chelsea, Arsenal and United. They can all put out good 11s but United's is unquestionably greater than the sum of it's parts. Chelsea's is aging and patchy and Arsenal's is inconsistent.

All this "gelling" stuff is an excuse now. We're got our formation, we've got our style of play and we know what we are doing.

Nonsense to say we "can't" win the title. I don't believe we will, but I believe we should be trying. We need a plan "B" against defensive teams and that should be balls in the box and penetration on the flanks. And we need to go to places like Old TRafford and be bold.

I believe Mancini is working to this seasons prime directive: Champs League football.

I do not believe our goal is to win the Prem this year, if we do, it is a bonus, but i do not believe that is currently at the front of Mancinis thinking.

I think most would agree, whilst we have improved a lot, and whilst we have a CHANCE of winning the league, we are not the finished article, and do need improvment in attack options and full back performances.

I firmly believe the clubs / Mancinis plans for league titles starts next season. I am a patient man, we are are NOT a short term project (I am delighted we have signed the billion pound arena development project, if that does not indicate long term planning, i dont know what does!) and now more than ever believe a lot of good is coming our way.

I couldn't give a fek about Arsenal, Wenger, or any of the reporting media who are dissing us on a regular basis. We are quietly getting on with building a team capable of being one of the very best in the world.

"ra ra ra"
 
gio's side step said:
This is my take on last night and recent developments.

I argued at the start of the season that we should (fans included) step up and show a bigger mentality, to get rid of that stupid 'typical city' syndrome, expecting the last minute goals to break our hearts again and again, hopes up to be shot down etc, whilst of course being honest and realistic about what we could and should achieve. My honesty was that we had assembled the squad to win the league. No bulshit. No bollocks. It was true then, and it's true now. As a result of that belief, I as a fan was prepared to put faith in the manager, to try and not be a fan which fans of other clubs thought 'he's alright this lad, down to earth, full of humour, can take the piss out of his own disfortune', when all that does in reality, is play to the 'I'm a loser tune'.

I have at times (at home) been sceptical of the approach, fearing Mancini was not putting the same faith and trust in his players which I were in him, however, I argued that my belief in Mancini's plan, was to generate a stronger mentality amongst the squad, to go into games knowing we won't get beat, knowing how not to get beat, to erase the significant ill discipline which has been at the heart of the club for years, to control the tempo of games more, to know how to see out games, and to erase the last minute goal syndrome (i.e. Utd this season). The truth is, Mancini has undertaken significant work in this department and it's clearly evident that we are not only stronger mentally both at home and away in terms of our perception as supporters, but other clubs, fans, journalists are seeing a completely different football club as a result. That has been Mancini's biggest contribution to date. As a result, I took on board the arguments that it would take time for players post-World Cup to settle, gel, but maintained that with the 5th place (nearly 4th) of last season, and with the players we had signed, we should aim above 4th and let that take care of itself.

However, in terms of last night, and all those having a pop at us, part of Mancini's plan is not to fulfil some moral ethical code about how football should be played, especially against a side who are built on playing a particular brand of fluent attacking football. I am a purist. The Kinkladze's, Berkovic's, Silva's certainly do more for me than the Dunne's, Pollock's and Milners. I like others was frustrated at watching it, whilst recognising the bigger picture. We appear to have become less cautious at home against the weaker sides, and have certainly stepped up the tempo away from home against those sides also.

But last night, and this seems to be forgotten by most journalists, was our first BIG game against an established top 4 club at a time where we are realistically in with a chance of going from finishing 5th last season, to winning the title this year. Anyone who still wants to play it down is hiding behind that old City mentality mentioned at the start. Other clubs/fans/journalists can say 'City cant win the league playing like that', ignore it, it's complete utter generalised vague shit.

Put it into context. We arent going to play like that against 95% of the league for the remainder of the season. We also aren't and this is the key point, going to have become in one season, a side who finished 5th, spent more money, and became a side who would go anywhere, i.e. Old Trafford, Emirates, and play completely open, dominante the game, create more chances and be favourites. That comes from being established either as a top CL side or champions. The media and other fans want us to throw too many punches and knock ourselves out. Yes we spent a lot of money, and that is why our squad is the best in the league, and why we should think of ourselves as title contenders, but in terms of mentality, and control, tactically, there is a place for us this season, in the bigger games away from home, to still make sure we don't get beat, because to get beat in those games, serves to undo the work mentally we have taken great strides in gaining.

That's not saying we didn't obtain luck, we did. Equally, had we had Silva fit, it would have given us significantly more fluency, penetration and posession on the counter attack.

I still believe there is a place in the side for Johnson before Jo. That is still my biggest criticism of Mancini, because I don't accept the argument, Jo is more disciplined defensively, or keeps the ball better. Johnson last night would still have allowed to adopt the same approach, but would have given them something to significantly worry about more than Jo.

So Arsenal can claim a moral victory. But in the real world, even the purist in me would acknowledge it isnt a victory at all. We were the real winners last night. A side who finished 5th last season, stayed 2nd, took a point off an established top 4 side, with established experience at having played in those type of games going into the second half of the season.

We are right in the mix now, and whatever happens, there will be a place for the type of football we all want to see at City, once the mentality is conditioned, which comes from not losing games. We are well on the way this season, for that already having now been conditioned.

Thats just my rather long opinion sorry.

yep, horses for courses
 
Damocles said:
we are realistically in with a chance of going from finishing 5th last season, to winning the title this year. Anyone who still wants to play it down is hiding behind that old City mentality mentioned at the start.

Rubbish. We can't win the title, because unlike Chelsea and United, we don't have the consistency of play to win 10 games on the bounce.

Shouting "ra-ra-ra" is great and everything, but been second in a poor league, mainly due to the fact that we have only actually played Arsenal and Spurs away doesn't somehow mean that we are now world beaters.

We are still inconsistent, we still bottle big occasions, and we still haven't clicked as a team.

People are that desperate for this to happen, that they are trying to force it instead of been legitimately proud of where we are, it's never enough for some.

Agree that were not thier yet and it tkaes time so no rush, top 4 is our target and a target im convinced we will meet. We do now play as a team but not consistantly enough to win the league this year. All this rubbish about a poor league, we are 2nd in the league simple as, we will improve so no worrys there.
We have only played Arsenal and spurs away thats HALF of our rivals and we are HALF way through the season. Spurs need to go away to Chelsea and us, Chelsea need to go away to United, United have to go away to spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea, Arsenal have Spurs away.
 

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