A Slightly Different Perspective

trublue55

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 Feb 2008
Messages
864
From a slightly different perspective, ive tried looking a little deeper at comparing results (not performances). I think even the most biased rag (that will be all of them, would struggle to claim , that they should have had any MORE points than they have actually got, they cant really argue about their 3 defeats, and even against Spurs (last kick equaliser) Spurs were well worth a point.

Given both sides have had very late winners, ( bearing in mind we had a few last year, and i lost count of the number of times they won very late) i would like to look more closely at the draws ..8 against 2. Rags , Spurs and Swansea both away, arguably lucky to get 2 points, but no way should they have got more.

Now lets look at City's 8 (costly) draws
Liverpool (a) very dodgy freekick for Liverpool's second, but 1 point about right
Stoke (a) Crappenburg "missed" Crouch playing basketball before scoring, failed to send off
(wilkinson??) last minute kicked off line, def robbed 2 points
Arsenal (h) Sergio too honest at 1- 0 stayed up, when def pen, would have been (hopefully)
2 - 0 and game over, concede late equaliser, should have had 2 more points
West Ham(a) missed a couple of very good chances, but 1 point about right
Chelsea (a) Benitez first game, ripe for taking, def pen not given robbed 2 points
Everton (h) not good performance 1 point about right
QPR (a) goal less Cesar man of match, couple of easy chances missed, should have been +2
Liverpool (h) Liverpool equaliser after def foul on Dzeko, game changing moment, but only
deserved 1 point.

Now before you accuse me of blue tinted specs, ive not commented on some possibly favourable contentious decisions or late goals, anymore than i have for Rags (Liverpool and Chelsea away spring to mind) Ive accepted basically, that when both teams have won (they simply have 3 points, end of matter) i've tried to look at the times when both teams have not won. Personally, i think from above , you can very easily make a good case, when with a more luck / better refereeing we would be 8 points better off. Could easily be only 4 behind them.
Stating the blindingly obvious, no way should we have lost at home to the Rags, having fought back brilliantly to draw level, we lose in the last seconds, because
i) Clichy fails to take safety first approach (row Z),
ii) ref awards very dubious foul to Rags,
iii) Nasri hides behind wall,
iv) despite iii) he sticks out foot and deflects ball away from Joe into corner of net

Dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to claim we should be ahead of them, i'm merely pointing out, that we were oh so close to being a hell of a lot nearer, and still having to play them at the Swamp..if only some of the above had gone our way.

I accept we are a lot of goals (19, i believe) down on last year, and have undeniably failed to push home an advantage in quite the same fashion that we did last year. Our defence, like last year, is the best in the league, we have simply not been so clinical in our finishing.Having said that, last year we were Champions, and this season, despite the failings above, we have already bettered the Champions' results at Fulham, West Brom, Chelsea and Arsenal (first win in 34 years) we really have not been getting bad results , its just that THEY have been getting better ones.

Realistically most teams now park the bus at the Etihad, and many of them do the same at home. We, the Champions, are their Cup Final, and they raise their game accordingly
More to the point, i think the above, clearly show, that despite most peoples' perception that we are not playing anything like last year, results wise, there has been very, very little between us and the Rags, and we could oh so easily have been breathing down their necks, within striking distance. As others have pointed out, we are 90 mins away from another Wembley appearance, and who is to say we cant't win it, (bookies have us as favourites for a reason).

Sure, Champions League was a disappointment, (so was last year) but i will NEVER forget 3 magical days in Madrid, overall, this season has not been bad (despite what the media would have you believe) and there is still plenty of time for it to get even better. So what if the Champions only finish second,and (hopefully) win the FA Cup, thats certainly something i NEVER thought i would be saying about about City back at Wembley in 1999 towards the end of that game against.....hmmm, who was it now, it seems so very long ago!!!!!!
 
I hate to dismiss your comments when you have obviously put a lot of thought into it but Reading at Home, injury time winner with Barry all over their Defender?; Kevin Nolan's perfectly good Goal not given? Nothing about a lead of 12 points indicates bad luck.

They hit the ground running and we didn't.

Their will be other battles to fight.
 
Just look at it for what it is. They solved the problem which lead to them not winning the league last season, whereas we weakened the squad that won it for us. Add to that performances like that at Southampton, where anyone watching would think there was no title to defend, and what you have then is United 12 points ahead of us. Blame refs, decisions all you want, but the bottom line is what i've just said here, nothing more and nothing less.
Will we learn from that for next season? That's what matters now.
 
ifiwasarichfan said:
I hate to dismiss your comments when you have obviously put a lot of thought into it but Reading at Home, injury time winner with Barry all over their Defender?; Kevin Nolan's perfectly good Goal not given? Nothing about a lead of 12 points indicates bad luck.

They hit the ground running and we didn't.

Their will be other battles to fight.


probably not a good idea to quote yourself but..... quote
"ive not commented on some possibly favourable contentious decisions or late goals, anymore than i have for Rags (Liverpool and Chelsea away spring to mind) Ive accepted basically, that when both teams have won (they simply have 3 points, end of matter) i've tried to look at the times when both teams have not won."

They are ahead, i hate to say it, deservedly, because as others have said they appear to have addressed their problems, however, my point was, and still is, despite all that, and the general media perception that we are in crisis (lol), as i have tried to demonstrate what many people agree looks most likely to ultimately cost us (draws) could quite conceivably have resulted in 6 to 8 more points, and thats without the Derby

Sure, we played absolute S**t at Southampton, bit like Swansea last year, but although the League table says its 12 points (currently) i think we are actually closer to them than that results wise, and personally i thought we were further ahead of them last year than goal difference
 
Two issues cost us:

The RVP free-kick - that win gave them a huge boost and knocked us

And the Champions League Group of Death. They had an easy coast through their Group while we had seriously demanding games which hurt us physically and psychologically

And most importantly of all - injuries to Aguero and Kompany that have been on off all season.

The one area of our team which is poor is our forward play. Tevez has been very poor. Dzeko looks like he will move and Jun is in 3 weeks and out the 4th.
 
trublue55 said:
From a slightly different perspective, ive tried looking a little deeper at comparing results (not performances). I think even the most biased rag (that will be all of them, would struggle to claim , that they should have had any MORE points than they have actually got, they cant really argue about their 3 defeats, and even against Spurs (last kick equaliser) Spurs were well worth a point.

Given both sides have had very late winners, ( bearing in mind we had a few last year, and i lost count of the number of times they won very late) i would like to look more closely at the draws ..8 against 2. Rags , Spurs and Swansea both away, arguably lucky to get 2 points, but no way should they have got more.

Now lets look at City's 8 (costly) draws
Liverpool (a) very dodgy freekick for Liverpool's second, but 1 point about right
Stoke (a) Crappenburg "missed" Crouch playing basketball before scoring, failed to send off
(wilkinson??) last minute kicked off line, def robbed 2 points
Arsenal (h) Sergio too honest at 1- 0 stayed up, when def pen, would have been (hopefully)
2 - 0 and game over, concede late equaliser, should have had 2 more points
West Ham(a) missed a couple of very good chances, but 1 point about right
Chelsea (a) Benitez first game, ripe for taking, def pen not given robbed 2 points
Everton (h) not good performance 1 point about right
QPR (a) goal less Cesar man of match, couple of easy chances missed, should have been +2
Liverpool (h) Liverpool equaliser after def foul on Dzeko, game changing moment, but only
deserved 1 point.

Now before you accuse me of blue tinted specs, ive not commented on some possibly favourable contentious decisions or late goals, anymore than i have for Rags (Liverpool and Chelsea away spring to mind) Ive accepted basically, that when both teams have won (they simply have 3 points, end of matter) i've tried to look at the times when both teams have not won. Personally, i think from above , you can very easily make a good case, when with a more luck / better refereeing we would be 8 points better off. Could easily be only 4 behind them.
Stating the blindingly obvious, no way should we have lost at home to the Rags, having fought back brilliantly to draw level, we lose in the last seconds, because
i) Clichy fails to take safety first approach (row Z),
ii) ref awards very dubious foul to Rags,
iii) Nasri hides behind wall,
iv) despite iii) he sticks out foot and deflects ball away from Joe into corner of net

Dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to claim we should be ahead of them, i'm merely pointing out, that we were oh so close to being a hell of a lot nearer, and still having to play them at the Swamp..if only some of the above had gone our way.

I accept we are a lot of goals (19, i believe) down on last year, and have undeniably failed to push home an advantage in quite the same fashion that we did last year. Our defence, like last year, is the best in the league, we have simply not been so clinical in our finishing.Having said that, last year we were Champions, and this season, despite the failings above, we have already bettered the Champions' results at Fulham, West Brom, Chelsea and Arsenal (first win in 34 years) we really have not been getting bad results , its just that THEY have been getting better ones.

Realistically most teams now park the bus at the Etihad, and many of them do the same at home. We, the Champions, are their Cup Final, and they raise their game accordingly
More to the point, i think the above, clearly show, that despite most peoples' perception that we are not playing anything like last year, results wise, there has been very, very little between us and the Rags, and we could oh so easily have been breathing down their necks, within striking distance. As others have pointed out, we are 90 mins away from another Wembley appearance, and who is to say we cant't win it, (bookies have us as favourites for a reason).

Sure, Champions League was a disappointment, (so was last year) but i will NEVER forget 3 magical days in Madrid, overall, this season has not been bad (despite what the media would have you believe) and there is still plenty of time for it to get even better. So what if the Champions only finish second,and (hopefully) win the FA Cup, thats certainly something i NEVER thought i would be saying about about City back at Wembley in 1999 towards the end of that game against.....hmmm, who was it now, it seems so very long ago!!!!!!

Liverpool home and away we were lucky to get a point
Arsenal at Home we were totally outplayed
Southampton home -lucky to get a point

We are where we are because we play two holding players which is ok if your strikers can get the goals in tight games - this we have failed to do in to many which is why we have drawn games rather than won them.
 
Pigeonho said:
Just look at it for what it is. They solved the problem which lead to them not winning the league last season, whereas we weakened the squad that won it for us. Add to that performances like that at Southampton, where anyone watching would think there was no title to defend, and what you have then is United 12 points ahead of us. Blame refs, decisions all you want, but the bottom line is what i've just said here, nothing more and nothing less.
Will we learn from that for next season? That's what matters now.


This.

They were better in the transfer window and we were poor. That has reflected in our and their results this season. We didn't need 5 players last summer, we just needed 2 or 3 quality additions and not to sell key squad players like de Jong.

The rags needed goals so they paid for the best goal scorer in the league (RVP) and someone to create opportunities for that goal scorer (Kagawa).

It's not rocket science but marwood obviously thought it was!
 
Tom_mcfc said:
No wonder we get called bitter

Assuming thats aimed at me, let me try once more for those that are HARD OF THOUGHT!

We are 2nd, deservedly, behind the Rags, but IMHO, much as we deserve to be behind them, i dont think we deserve to be as many as 12 points behind. I outlined above, examples whereby although we would still be behind them, i feel i can make a good case for us being much closer to them.

Despite the media perception that we have meekly surrendered our title , i was pointing out that with a little more/ better.......effort/luck/ refereeing/Summer purchases/tactics/manager...........you name it , you take your pick, we could and should have been a lot closer and irrespective of all that a possible runners-up finish and FA Cup success, would in no way constitute a poor season. If that is indeed the case ask the other 18 teams who are currently behind us, and the 80+ teams already knocked out of the cup.

So, if that level of positive thinking makes me bitter, then by all means call me Bitter
 
We are where we are due to our own failings this season which we have to trust Bobby to fix this summer. Sometimes it's worth going one step backwards to go two forwards. I don't agree on all your permatations above, the Rags had enough chances to win comfortably at Swansea and probably would have done had RVP not nearly been killed haha. And they should have had a pen at 1-0 up at Spurs. Likewise for us we deserved a point at Sunderland and we were on top against the dippers when Sturridge scored from what should have been a foul. Overall though, we know where we need to improve and I trust Bobby to sort it in the summer and get hungry players into the team
 

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