Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

The perfect fumble said:
Can you not see it?

This Cummings story has traction because the whole is far greater than the sum of its insignificant parts, it speaks to the sacrifices all of us (almost all of us) have had to make, some far greater than others. The story won't die down because it chimes with five things emerging from this crisis.

1. We're indignant, there is one rule for our rulers and one for us.
2. We're appalled, our rulers are liars.
3. We're angry, we've been taken for mugs, all of us.
4. We're weary, our rulers are incompetent, they don't know what they're doing.
5. We're apprehensive, our rulers are indifferent to our plight, they've fucked us over, they don't have our best interests at heart now and in to the future.
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I see what you mean, but those 5 points could be applied to any time in the last decade.
 
Shaelumstash said:
There was an article in the Sunday Times yesterday that said the 22 days of delay at the start of all this has led to 1million more people getting infected than necessary.

Unnecessary deaths must be in the tens of thousands.
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Thank you, at last the real story. It seems a long time since March now, but I'm sure we all remember as the supermarket shelves emptied and the death toll rose we should have been in lockdown a lot earlier. The unspoken govt policy was to limp along kicking the can down the road to the easter hols to squeeze as much out of the,economy as possible at the cost of 1000's of lives.
 
robbieh said:
Johnson should be toast. Given that the next election is years away can the Tory party replace him with someone else if they so wished?
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with whom? we have seen what a weak wishy washy cabinet there is - they haven't allowed anyone with gravitas to remain in the party as they are a threat to the mop headed fuckwit - I have to ask name that loon.
 
The Colonel said:
I wasn’t against him and this is beyond politics. Are you talking from a political view still? Too many tribal views ( what should I expect from a football forum). I’m enraged by the double standards. I had to stay in with my family when I had the virus, risk the children being exposed and rely on drop offs. I don’t even think it’s clever deflection tactics , the other issues will be brought back in good time.
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I totally agree that this should be beyond politics. Cummings has treated everyone who has stuck to the guidelines and particularly everyone who has made very difficult and in many cases heartbreaking decisions during lockdown with utter contempt, whether they be people who voted for this government or not. So logic tells me that Johnson supporting Cummings should have gone down incredibly badly across the population and that the vast majority should want Cummings to be properly held to account. But I just find myself very wary about assuming that is the case. So much about political and cultural discourse in this country is all about them and us and not about what people truly within themselves believe is right and wrong. I know these are not the best gauge but both on here and on Twitter, I'd say it's been noticeable that since Johnson gave Cummings his backing last night, there has been a shift back to what I see as people defending the indefensible which I wasn't seeing so much on Saturday. It's difficult to say, I tend to live in a bit of a bubble where most people I communicate with broadly think the same things as me politically but I wouldn't for one minute assume that Johnson has played this wrong by backing Cummings. Their whole play book is about doing what they like and relying on the divisions in society that they have helped to open up to see them through. I hope this is a bridge too far for them but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I
bluethrunthru said:
with whom? we have seen what a weak wishy washy cabinet there is - they haven't allowed anyone with gravitas to remain in the party as they are a threat to the mop headed fuckwit - I have to ask name that loon.
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Was thinking they might get behind someone from outside the cabinet. After all if this idiocy carries on their brand could be seriously damaged and that will concern them.
 
robbieh said:
I

Was thinking they might get behind someone from outside the cabinet. After all if this idiocy carries on their brand could be seriously damaged and that will concern them.
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Yeah but who? Their "cream" is in the cabinet but its sour. They would be better off trying to select people on talent, talent relative to the post - eg someone who ran a large business as chancellor, ex doctor or nurse as Health Sec - you know the type of person you would expect to apply for the job were it advertised publicly. The idea that this is the cream based solely on their loyalty to both Brexit and Johnson tells you all you need to know - nobody in post really knows what they are doing and it shows.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
I totally agree that this should be beyond politics. Cummings has treated everyone who has stuck to the guidelines and particularly everyone who has made very difficult and in many cases heartbreaking decisions during lockdown with utter contempt, whether they be people who voted for this government or not. So logic tells me that Johnson supporting Cummings should have gone down incredibly badly across the population and that the vast majority should want Cummings to be properly held to account. But I just find myself very wary about assuming that is the case. So much about political and cultural discourse in this country is all about them and us and not about what people truly within themselves believe is right and wrong. I know these are not the best gauge but both on here and on Twitter, I'd say it's been noticeable that since Johnson gave Cummings his backing last night, there has been a shift back to what I see as people defending the indefensible which I wasn't seeing so much on Saturday. It's difficult to say, I tend to live in a bit of a bubble where most people I communicate with broadly think the same things as me politically but I wouldn't for one minute assume that Johnson has played this wrong by backing Cummings. Their whole play book is about doing what they like and relying on the divisions in society that they have helped to open up to see them through. I hope this is a bridge too far for them but I'm not holding my breath.
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To be fair online, on TV and on the radio phone ins today there has been virtually zero support for Cummings and Johnson over this. I saw Tom Harwoods lame performance on the TV this morning trying to defend though why he is called a journalist when he is clearly just an extension of the govt propaganda dept and another commentator debating with Owen Jones. She said the Mail was a "remainer rag" ! Aside from the stupidity of that comment it exposes that is all they have - Brexit - everything is framed through Brexit so they have approached the whole pandemic as a PR exercise rather than a public health issue.
 
Rascal said:
Actually they can, Lord Douglas Home in 1963, although he did renounce his peerage after taking office, Lord Salisbury lead the Government up to 1902. Lord Halifax was in line to replace Chamberlain before WW2 until Churchill got the job.

The Prime Minister actually means First amongst equals, so anybody in the cabinet can be first amongst equals as long as the Queen accedes. The cabinet can come from both houses, The Lord Chancellor is in the cabinet but resides in the Lords.
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If you get the chance, "6 Minutes in May" is a brilliant read - the story of how Churchill, despite a disastrous Norway campaign, became PM.
I stand corrected on a Lord PM etc. Ta
 
west didsblue said:
Especially when I’m right. He was appointed PM just before he revoked his peerage.
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To be pedantic, that could imply that he was about to revoke his peerage before he was appointed PM rather than because he was appointed and had a vacant seat in the Commons. The constitutional issue would be whether, if he'd not won the seat, he could have continued as PM without being a member of either House of Parliament.

As I raised this by suggesting Baroness Warsi for PM until the Tory members inflict their next choice on us, I'd also suggest the next best step would be for the Tory members to choose her, a Muslim woman, for PM and she could step into the next vacant seat - Uxbridge.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but who? Their "cream" is in the cabinet but its sour. They would be better off trying to select people on talent, talent relative to the post - eg someone who ran a large business as chancellor, ex doctor or nurse as Health Sec - you know the type of person you would expect to apply for the job were it advertised publicly. The idea that this is the cream based solely on their loyalty to both Brexit and Johnson tells you all you need to know - nobody in post really knows what they are doing and it shows.
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Oh come on! Get someone in who knows what they are doing? Get real. These are politicians not real people.

A degree at Oxbridge doesn’t fit you for a real job where you need leadership and common sense.
 
johnnytapia said:
If you get the chance, "6 Minutes in May" is a brilliant read - the story of how Churchill, despite a disastrous Norway campaign, became PM.
I stand corrected on a Lord PM etc. Ta
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There are pretty much no limitations on who can be PM, ignoring maybe crimes and insanity. The actual position is barely defined.

Doesn't have to be a party leader or an MP, but nowadays it's difficult to argue that it shouldn't be someone elected, to the point when it would only happen in extremis.
 
The more I read about it the more shameful Johnson’s leadership becomes apparent. Nearly every big decision was delayed causing tens of thousands of additional deaths. In mid March infections were doubling every 3 and a half days. He had the information available to justify starting the lockdown a week earlier which would have meant that there could have been 75% fewer people infected and consequently 75% fewer deaths. Using the excess deaths measure that’s around 40,000 people who shouldn’t have died due to coronavirus.

I know this is looking at it retrospectively but no one can convince me that these consequences shouldn’t have been apparent to the leadership of the country with all the best scientific advice available to them and the lessons from Italy and Spain on the news daily.

It fucking stinks. It’s probably the worst demonstration of leadership of this country in living memory.
 
west didsblue said:
The more I read about it the more shameful Johnson’s leadership becomes apparent. Nearly every big decision was delayed causing tens of thousands of additional deaths. In mid March infections were doubling every 3 and a half days. He had the information available to justify starting the lockdown a week earlier which would have meant that there could have been 75% fewer people infected and consequently 75% fewer deaths. Using the excess deaths measure that’s around 40,000 people who shouldn’t have died due to coronavirus.

I know this is looking at it retrospectively but no one can convince me that these consequences shouldn’t have been apparent to the leadership of the country with all the best scientific advice available to them and the lessons from Italy and Spain on the news daily.

It fucking stinks. It’s probably the worst demonstration of leadership of this country in living memory.
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Yeh, but we got Brexit done.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I wonder if he is losing the right wing press? Useless in PMQ's.....beyond that largely invisible ....2 x U-turns on flagship immigration policy in a day ( policy dear t the Mail and its readers hearts ) .... maybe they are setting him up for a fall - small undermining now but see how it goes in recess and if even with the baying mob he struggles when Parliament returns they may, by that stage, have already eyed up a successor to get behind. Maybe Gove? End of June, No Deal , WTO and he could be the chosen one...
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I’ve always had an inkling Gove would end up the post-Brexit PM. Boris was shoved in for his personality to win over the Tory stance for Brexit last Autumn, but he’d done his job once that GE was won. Now he’s just on spent time but during a crises it’s not the time to get rid but an ideal time to lay the blame at his feet and get some other dirt in him, of which, of course, there is an abundance.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I’ve always had an inkling Gove would end up the post-Brexit PM. Boris was shoved in for his personality to win over the Tory stance for Brexit last Autumn, but he’d done his job once that GE was won. Now he’s just on spent time but during a crises it’s not the time to get rid but an ideal time to lay the blame at his feet and get some other dirt in him, of which, of course, there is an abundance.
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Very possible.
 
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