All these creative players, so little creativity?

[ayrshire_blue]

Our defensive frailties are such a blatantly obvious problem which is only serving to overshadow how little we're creating going forward.

Before anyone starts, I'm not posting to bash individual players here but point out that the team has a problem. We went out in the summer and spent 104 million on Sterling and De Bruyne. We already have arguably the most creatively gifted player in the league in David Silva, mixed with Toure who plays because of what he supposedly offers going forward compared to defensively. We've got the 'different option' in Navas and again the different styles in play between Bony and Aguero up top.

So the question is...why are we creating so few genuinely good goalscoring chances? We had one tonight through KDB, zero against Swansea from open play, one at Stoke through KDB, one aguero created for himzelf at home to Liverpool, zero at United, 2 or 3 at Villa being the exception and offered very little at home to Norwich.

With the abundance of creative players in our side why are we struggling to make chances of any note?

It's one thing saying we played decent tonight - for half an hour at least. Yep, I was watching the same game and we kept the ball well and arsenal done very little until the first goal. But for all the possession we were enjoying Arsenal weren't threatened. KDB's chance aside we never really looked like scoring.

Where's it going wrong in that respect?

When we start creating enough chances and putting teams under the correct sort of pressure we'll start winning games. How do we get there again?

 

[Manchester_lalala]

One thing pellegrini is good at is setting up an attacking 442. I honestly don't have a clue what the formation is at the minute. I wouldn't mind seeing a return off the 4-2-2-2.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

The players play too far away from each other so the passing is slow and becomes predictable and easy to defend against. We are incredibly borin to watch. Even with Silva and Kun out too if imagine a side consisting of Yaya Fernandinho Sterling Navas deBruyne and Bony would play some gteat football but we didn't and we haven't particularly with Silva and Kun on a regular basis for the last two seasons. Sometimes we turn it on, often we don't and cruise through some games with little excitement.

 

[LoveCity]

No triangles, no patterns, nothing elaborate. We are very predictable and overly reliant on defenders falling for the same tricks we use over and over, and the individual brilliance of some of our players. Pellegrini is an attacking manager but doesn't seem to be a deep thinking tactician, unlike Guardiola and others. We've been very sussed out lately except against open or naive teams.

 

[dronefromsector7G]

Over the last few years we have seen our full backs overlapping, especially Zaba and Richards. We created so many chances this way. I miss those days.

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

KDB one on one , Navas one on one , Aguero header from free kick , Bony header from corner , Bony chance deflected past the post , Toure through twice on goal but scuffed shots , a couple of reasonable penalty claims , thats just what i can remember , without seeing a replay , we made enough chances ,we didnt take them. Arsenal had 2 shots in the 1st half and scored both , zees is futball , it happens.

 

[Bill Walker]

Teams have found us out and are stopping us playing

Pelle has no answers

sack him ffs

 

[chesterbells]

Was plenty of criticism of Navas on the commentary tonight and it was pretty justified tbh

 

[Tricky_Trev]

No triangles, no patterns, nothing elaborate. We are very predictable and overly reliant on defenders falling for the same tricks we use over and over, and the individual brilliance of some of our players. Pellegrini is an attacking manager but doesn't seem to be a deep thinking tactician, unlike Guardiola and others. We've been very sussed out lately except against open or naive teams.

It's depressing. Sideways, sideways, sideways, then out to the advanced full back, then no cross because Aguero won't win a header, so pass back to the centre backs or holding midfielders and pass sideways across to the opposite full back, who then passes backwards. Until the point where some tool decides to play a long ball to Aguero. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Proy]

We play with width generally but we are poor when we eventually get to the box.

We are very easy to play against. Teams are making themselves compact and are quite happy to let us have the ball.

Barcelona is the blueprint and they are also about possession but they have technically much better players. We are not as good as we think we are and are in fact very predictable.

The answer. We need to work harder as a group to retrieve the ball, and move it much quicker and more directly than we do when we have it. We need better shape in possession, but more than anything we simply need better players. Your Fernandos' etc are never going to be good enough and him, along with a few others, need to be moved on in the summer to develop a new squad that will play how Pep wants.

 

[ono]

For me, it's a fundamental problem with how we set up with the ball. We are too far apart in possession so players are too far away from eachother. The reason this happens is because Toure has to drop so deep to pick the ball up, but Manuel insists on the wide men maintaing their width. We'd be better served allowing the wide men to drift centrally to make space for the overlap. De Bruyne and Sagna ran into each other and knocked each other over tonight by trying to occupy the exact same space. It's laughable that we persist with this faux wide threat when every man and his dog knows that we will only cross as a last resort and even then we won't beat the first man with it.

We also seem to have acquired a few 'all or nothing players' in De Bruyne and Sterling. Even Aguero is like this now. Players like Silva and Nasri can still gain us territorial advantage without really being at their best, meaning we can pen teams in and apply consistent pressure. They posses tight control and can turn out of trouble without actually specifically looking to create a chance. This in itself creates openings. De Bruyne and Sterling are totally different. They are very visual players in the sense that they might create a chance despite being on periphery of the game, or when they do create a chance it seemingly comes out of nothing. The problem with this approach is, when they aren't contributing, they're not really effecting the play or allowing us to gain any form of territorial advantage. It sometimes works because their directness can lead to a goal, but it can also be an unreliable method of playing. The other problem is for me, to play this style, you need players who are consistent scorers and creaters in at least 3 of the more attacking positions. Players who score or assist in most games. We have a 1 in 3 scorer and assister Sterling, a 1 in 2 in De Bruyne, but then a huge drop off to Navas who doesn't ever score.

In short, I think we need to more compact as an attacking unit and stop trying to stretch the pitch as it does us no favours both with the ball and when we lose the ball. I think our wide men should both be inverted which would then allow us to occupy the Half Spaces (a small area halfway between the centre of the penalty box and the touchline - on both sides) more often. We miss another Nasri type of player. A proper ball retainer. And of course we need a fit and firing Aguero. The worry for him is even in the games he has played in, he has looked devoid of space - with the exception of Chelsea and Newcastle. We need to figure out how to overcome that.

 

[bluwes]

I think we just play head tennis all week.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

KDB one on one , Navas one on one , Aguero header from free kick , Bony header from corner , Bony chance deflected past the post , Toure through twice on goal but scuffed shots , a couple of reasonable penalty claims , thats just what i can remember , without seeing a replay , we made enough chances ,we didnt take them. Arsenal had 2 shots in the 1st half and scored both , zees is futball , it happens.

You're kidding yourself on if you think any of those 'chances' were notable at all never mind clear cut aside from KDB's which I've mentioned and arguably, to a lesser extent, Navas's.

Body's header from a corner? Aguero's flick from a free kick? Hardly found myself getting excited thinking we were about to score.

Toure through on goal twice? When?

 

[ayrshire_blue]

For me, it's a fundamental problem with how we set up with the ball. We are too far apart in possession so players are too far away from eachother. The reason this happens is because Toure has to drop so deep to pick the ball up, but Manuel insists on the wide men maintaing their width. We'd be better served allowing the wide men to drift centrally to make space for the overlap. De Bruyne and Sagna ran into each other and knocked each other over tonight by trying to occupy the exact same space. It's laughable that we persist with this faux wide threat when every man and his dog knows that we will only cross as a last resort and even then we won't beat the first man with it.

We also seem to have acquired a few 'all or nothing players' in De Bruyne and Sterling. Even Aguero is like this now. Players like Silva and Nasri can still gain us territorial advantage without really being at their best, meaning we can pen teams in and apply consistent pressure. They posses tight control and can turn out of trouble without actually specifically looking to create a chance. This in itself creates openings. De Bruyne and Sterling are totally different. They are very visual players in the sense that they might create a chance despite being on periphery of the game, or when they do create a chance it seemingly comes out of nothing. The problem with this approach is, when they aren't contributing, they're not really effecting the play or allowing us to gain any form of territorial advantage. It sometimes works because their directness can lead to a goal, but it can also be an unreliable method of playing. The other problem is for me, to play this style, you need players who are consistent scorers and creaters in at least 3 of the more attacking positions. Players who score or assist in most games. We have a 1 in 3 scorer and assister Sterling, a 1 in 2 in De Bruyne, but then a huge drop off to Navas who doesn't ever score.

In short, I think we need to more compact as an attacking unit and stop trying to stretch the pitch as it does us no favours both with the ball and when we lose the ball. I think our wide men should both be inverted which would then allow us to occupy the Half Spaces (a small area halfway between the centre of the penalty box and the touchline - on both sides) more often. We miss another Nasri type of player. A proper ball retainer. And of course we need a fit and firing Aguero. The worry for him is even in the games he has played in, he has looked devoid of space - with the exception of Chelsea and Newcastle. We need to figure out how to overcome that.

A first class post ONO. In my opinion there's bugger all to disagree with in there.

 

[blueheart84]

Bony, Fernando, Navas, Mangala will probably need to go in the summer - they'll never have the technical quality that Pep demands. Pep might be able to bring Thiago with him and we should be aiming to bring in another more skillful striker. We'll get Denayer back as well. Funnily enough I'd be happy to keep Nasri for another year if we get Pep - I have a feeling he might be able to get the best out of him.

 

[Proy]

No triangles, no patterns, nothing elaborate. We are very predictable and overly reliant on defenders falling for the same tricks we use over and over, and the individual brilliance of some of our players. Pellegrini is an attacking manager but doesn't seem to be a deep thinking tactician, unlike Guardiola and others. We've been very sussed out lately except against open or naive teams.

That graph is very telling in that, once we get to the box, we are knackered. It goes backwards. It's also telling in that Aguero sits deep, often behind Silva. He's looking for the ball. He's not a box striker and never has been.

For a team that would probably be better served playing centrally it's a bit of a conundrum trying to understand why we play with so much width, when we never actually use it in the spirit it's intended.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

That graph is very telling in that, once we get to the box, we are knackered. It goes backwards. It's also telling in that Aguero sits deep, often behind Silva. He's looking for the ball. He's not a box striker and never has been.

For a team that would probably be better served playing centrally it's a bit of a conundrum trying to understand why we play with so much width, when we never actually use it in the spirit it's intended.

In a sense we've went full circle. At times last season we were criticised for playing so narrow and lacking a bit of width at certain times. Now our play revolves round getting the ball out wide, maybe we've overdone it in that respect.

 

[ono]

That graph is very telling in that, once we get to the box, we are knackered. It goes backwards. It's also telling in that Aguero sits deep, often behind Silva. He's looking for the ball. He's not a box striker and never has been.

For a team that would probably be better served playing centrally it's a bit of a conundrum trying to understand why we play with so much width, when we never actually use it in the spirit it's intended.

Exactly, we short hand ourselves by doubling up on the right with Sagna and a right footed winger. Neither drifts inwards so in essence both occupy the same space. De Bruyne and Sagna ran into each other tonight. It was comical.

The width also causes issues when we lose the ball because other than Delph and Dinho we lack the speed and athleticism to close the gaps. When this happens and Toure is involved, it highlights his deficiencies even more because he isn't switched on enough nor quick enough to contribute to stop the opposition from finding holes and playing through us. Delph and Dinho are theoretically quick enough and energetic enough but after his contribtution to their 2nd goal tonight, I'm going to assume Delph isn't anywhere near the required standard for when we do have the ball.

 

[Armaan]

One thing pellegrini is good at is setting up an attacking 442. I honestly don't have a clue what the formation is at the minute. I wouldn't mind seeing a return off the 4-2-2-2.

Neither would I, nobody knows what's going on with this formation now.

 

[teddykgb]

It's more than just width. We have few forward passes available because both Yaya and Silva come deep. If you watch our build up, Yaya comes and basically sits between the CBs, more or less negating 2 in attack. By coming this deep he also leaves fewer men ahead of the ball, so he's removed a forward passing option making it easier to mark the remaining players. Silva often comes to Yaya to receive the next pass but this removes another forward option and Yaya doesn't pass and move forward. Fernandinho knows Yaya won't track back so he's reluctant to form forward triangles, leaving us with effectively 7 behind or level with the ball. It's not surprising then that the 3 remaining outfield players all are surrounded and have very little space to operate. We get forced wide into the spaces teams will leave us and we hit hopeful cutback crosses to late arriving midfielders or front post crosses to our short striker.

Yes, we are missing the fullback overlap but that's largely because Sagna can't work out what Navas is going to do (nor can Jesus, but here's a hint, he's going to push it to the goal line). More than anything we need more options between the lines of defenders and more players who can play with the ball at their feet. If anything, I think our biggest sin is that we have too many players who are too limited on the ball. We need our CBs to initiate the attack with strong passes to Yaya and Fernandinho who are operating ahead of them, not level with them. We need full backs who have more moves than a safe reversal or a nutmeg. This all gets exacerbated when we add Fernando to the mix.

He never really did anything for us but this is the most disappointing thing about Joberic not working out. He was precisely one of those players who operated in between the lines of defenders, pushing and pulling defenders around.