To be fair mate I think a lot of Remainers are in denial about a lot of things. For a start, in denial about the public mandate that we must leave, after which all subsequent argument is rendered irrelevant.
But putting that to one side, many of you are in denial about the fact that it is possible to leave the EU in an orderly fashion in a reasonable timescale. You are in denial about the fact that Johnson's motives may very well be to negotiate a good deal for the UK and not throw the UK into no-deal turmoil. And you are in denial about just what little impact WTO terms would have on most people. Some goods might be a little more expensive, others cheaper. Exporting businesses may be adversely impacted, but the pound would likely fall, so that would help them. And the goverment would be free to offer support to exporters (and encouragements to stay in the UK) without be blocked from doing so by the EU.
You are also in denial about the strength of the UK negotiating postion. They categorically do not want a dynamic, deregulated, low tax economy like SIngapore, 26 miles off the coast of France.
Bless he lives in a country called Remania and he is remanier than thou.
Most smart people are in favour of remaining.
"Highly unlikely" is being extremely generous.The point is we are highly unlikely to have TA in place by Dec 2020
And if the Tories do want a deregulated economy (or even some Tories) how will that make for easy negotiatons? How many Tory MPs would block your easy "orderly fashion in a reasonable timescale" prediction? Some of them want No Deal and WTO and are openly lobbying for it. The unicorns keep coming.To be fair mate I think a lot of Remainers are in denial about a lot of things. For a start, in denial about the public mandate that we must leave, after which all subsequent argument is rendered irrelevant.
But putting that to one side, many of you are in denial about the fact that it is possible to leave the EU in an orderly fashion in a reasonable timescale. You are in denial about the fact that Johnson's motives may very well be to negotiate a good deal for the UK and not throw the UK into no-deal turmoil. And you are in denial about just what little impact WTO terms would have on most people. Some goods might be a little more expensive, others cheaper. Exporting businesses may be adversely impacted, but the pound would likely fall, so that would help them. And the goverment would be free to offer support to exporters (and encouragements to stay in the UK) without be blocked from doing so by the EU.
You are also in denial about the strength of the UK negotiating postion. They categorically do not want a dynamic, deregulated, low tax economy like SIngapore, 26 miles off the coast of France.
My point is that the threat of no deal is a very credible one that the EU absolutely do not want. And avoiding that by offering us a decent trade deal is a very real aspiration. How many Labour MPs would vote FOR a FTA which closely aligns us to the EU?And if the Tories do want a deregulated economy (or even some Tories) how will that make for easy negotiatons? How many Tory MPs would block your easy "orderly fashion in a reasonable timescale" prediction? Some of them want No Deal and WTO and are openly lobbying for it. The unicorns keep coming.
Pure waffle.To be fair mate I think a lot of Remainers are in denial about a lot of things. For a start, in denial about the public mandate that we must leave, after which all subsequent argument is rendered irrelevant.
But putting that to one side, many of you are in denial about the fact that it is possible to leave the EU in an orderly fashion in a reasonable timescale. You are in denial about the fact that Johnson's motives may very well be to negotiate a good deal for the UK and not throw the UK into no-deal turmoil. And you are in denial about just what little impact WTO terms would have on most people. Some goods might be a little more expensive, others cheaper. Exporting businesses may be adversely impacted, but the pound would likely fall, so that would help them. And the goverment would be free to offer support to exporters (and encouragements to stay in the UK) without be blocked from doing so by the EU.
You are also in denial about the strength of the UK negotiating postion. They categorically do not want a dynamic, deregulated, low tax economy like SIngapore, 26 miles off the coast of France.
You are missing something.I'm struggling to understand why you think that we can have a trade agreement within 11 months by keeping regulatory alignment and be Singapore-on-Thames at the same time.
Those positions are mutually exclusive unless I'm missing something.
I'm telling myself nothing, I'm telling you that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and customs union,
there would have been no point whatsoever having a referendum if it were predicated on the ludicrous proviso
that we won't. It would be like saying that whoever wins the forthcoming GE with a majority, won't necessarily be forming
the government. 'Hard Brexit' is a remainer concept dreamt up after the event.
I'll tell you why mate.Why should it be like that though Len?
At your age mate I can sympathise with you not remembering what a 'Hard' one is.What, exactly, is a 'Hard' Brexit? The agreed WA involves leaving the customs union and single market, which was
what we were told, ad nauseum, that's what would happen, everyone knew it, because these are the basic tenets of the EU,
so if we vote to leave, we, quite obviously, leave these two.
It's only the losers of the referendum that coin this term, it's a ridiculous term that means nothing at all, other than leaving
the EU.
It ain't getting sorted in 11 monthsYou mean apart from those times I have said the only way you get a future trade deal done in 11 months is sign up for a deal that leaves us with pretty much what we have now, ie fully aligned? Or as I like to call it de facto membership.
The EU are currently making encouraging noises that this is the way to go. The EU trade commissioner Hogan said last night that UK consumers will expect the UK to sign up to the EU’s labour, environmental and food standards as part of a free trade agreement. What Hogan didn’t comment on was that current alignment is underwritten by ECJ which is politically toxic to Tories and Brexiteers so question is do we accept the writ of the ECJ as before or do we construct a new legal framework? Secondly you overlook that alignment is not what the Tories are after and yes I know you think Johnson is lying and yes he definitely is lying to someone but coaxing people down from the ‘Global Britain Empire 2.0’ ledge is going to take time and a lot will depend on what the Tory manifesto says.
The fight over the legal basis alone will take time and then you have to decide which sectors you want to keep fully aligned and if any will be hived off or just kept partly aligned and that will involve discussions and consultations with the industry sectors themselves and we still haven’t even discussed NTB and our service industries which brings us to mutual recognition of qualifications and the tricky issue of ‘the movement of people’ across borders to facilitate the providing of those services.
And last but not least is the NI question and just how long does it take to set out, create and implement new custom protocols in NI? Does Dublin have a role? Is the legal basis underpinning the new protocols the ECJ? Do NI get to keep its MEP’s? And how hostile will Unionists be to this process?
Lots to sort out in 11 months.
It ain't getting sorted in 11 months
...And the goverment would be free to offer support to exporters (and encouragements to stay in the UK) without be blocked from doing so by the EU.
I'll tell you why mate.
Other than the economic border in the Irish Sea ,none of the issues of the UK/EU future relationship have yet to be resolved.
BUT we know now that the Leave side lied in the referendum campaign, particularly but not exclusively on the economic impact of Brexit and on the ease and simplicity of a good deal.
Far from the sunlit uplands even the most hardened leavers are admitting 'short term' pain before things get better whilst the official Government figures show a significant economic downturn (6 to 7% GDP drop in GDP) with no guarantee things will get better.
It doesn't matter whether you think the Remain side lied because we're leaving now. To the victor the spoils but also the consequence of his lies in achieving that victory.
And it is precisely because of the Leave lies and the way they have played out to date and will play out in the future that the same old people will be coming on here with the same old arguments.
Because we're all racist, xenophobic, intolerant, ignorant, gammon, knuckle draggers who shouldn't even be allowed an opinion, never mind a vote.Why be so rude and insulting to anyone who dares to have an opposing view ?
Well you are obviously entitled to your opinions, and they are just that opinions! the same as any one else.
However you miss one of the points I was making completely.
Why be so rude and insulting to anyone who dares to have an opposing view ?
Because your “opposing view” will damage every one of us and our families for years to come. That’s why. An opinion does not have equal validity to another opinion if one is backed with evidence and the other is not.Well you are obviously entitled to your opinions, and they are just that opinions! the same as any one else.
However you miss one of the points I was making completely.
Why be so rude and insulting to anyone who dares to have an opposing view ?