Another new Brexit thread

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Ban-jani said:
I think the 2nd paragraph is very hard to know, it’ll be close to 50/50 in my opinion, as it has been since 2016.

You’ll always get people who vote for the same party and they may have voted for them despite of Brexit policy.

Polls aren’t always accurate too.

Anyway, on the first points, I genuinely don’t think they care and they won’t be convinced otherwise.
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This goes to the heart of why we should push on and not have any further extensions - and of course also why the rear-guard of Remainers and the EU want extensions.

It probably is close to 50/50 - but if we Leave at the end of 2020 - then have 4 years before the next election - there is going to be very little appetite for a message of undertaking a rejoin campaign - and Labour would therefore not adopt such a message.

If we Leave at the end of 2020 (properly - not theoretically) - then it is done for generations and the continuous decline that will be caused by continued EU membership or being subject to EU regulations can be arrested.
 
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mcfc1632 said:
This goes to the heart of why we should push on and not have any further extensions - and of course also why the rear-guard of Remainers and the EU want extensions.

It probably is close to 50/50 - but is we leave at the end of 2020 - then have 4 years before the next election - there is going to be very reduced appetite for a message of undertaking a rejoin campaign - and Labour would therefore not adopt such a message.

If we Leave at the end of 2020 (properly - not theoretically) - then it is done for generations
Click to expand...

If it goes completely and utterly tits up there will likely be another election sooner and no doubt Starmer will campaign on a rejoin ticket.

If it’s bad but not a disaster or anything better than that, your post is correct.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Yes... that is the whole point of a 'reactionary gif'.

Of course you don't like the gifs I post; they're used for the exact same reasons as you just cited as Zuriblue's to mcfc1632, but you don't like them because their aimed at you and others like you. Gifs make sense to those who understand the context of their usage and what it's reacting to.

But you don't call up zuriblue for using them in the same way, because it benefits your viewpoint when it's used to demean others you disagree with. So you don't hate the usage of gifs at all, do you, you just hate when they're used against you and cannot understand the context of it, even when others do.

As I said, you're a total hypocrite. ;)
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Yep - I replied to @Zuriblue as I admired his/her creativity - better than simple cheap comments

Your gifs are equally informative/impactful
 
Gaudion M said:
A soft brexit on the cards then (with LPF provisions).

The question is what does it do to the tories. You still have 80~100ish ERG types who will shit the bed (they voted this down under May - would they do it again). And an unknown number of new intake Tories who could join with them. No doubt Farage will raise his ugly head and relaunch his grift vehicle/political party and start hammering the tories from the other side. Does anyone have the appetite to do a version of 2019 all over again but almost entirely within the confines of the tory party or do they just roll over and accept the inevitable consequence (i.e. it was inevitable that no political party would ever do no deal and the EU would always have their price for SM access).
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They will just wrap whatever deal we get in the Union Jack, declare victory and have a Spitfire fly over Whitehall and cry ‘freedom’, then go back to lining their pockets with backhanders from property developers and the like.

The real issue is the pandemic. Everything else is just cosplay.
 
Vic said:
It won't. The poorer you were the more likely to vote to leave. (In general), Brexit will have the greatest impact on those who voted for it. The people to feel sorry for are poor people who voted to Remain, and lose their jobs.

I think that's what Mexico just said but he was trying to be sarcastic.
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Lol, state of this thread now.
I'd have thought that by now Vic,after your choices have been roundly rejected by these 'Poor'
you keep banging on about time after time, that you may have got the message they give
no fucks whatsoever.
But it's lovely that you care so much about folk who aren't too bothered about you.
Anyway, back to frying outside and the prospect of blowing the froth off a cold one.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sooooooo?????

I have never said that the UK will not (need to) compromise - indeed, I have of course - several times - recently set out my concerns that Johnson becomes 'overly-involved' due to my concerns that he might compromise where accommodation is not necessary

I have simply stated the truism:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

You and others have seemed to delight in the expectation that the EU can simply boss the UK around - of course you have banged on about the fact that the EU are a rules based organisation and will therefore not make changes.....

After events of the last 10 months - perhaps you should have been always adding a rider along the lines of....

"...unless it suits them...."

or

"...unless the Remainer undermining of the UK's negotiations stops and the EU face the political will do walk away...."
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So you read the article then?
 
Gaudion M said:
A soft brexit on the cards then (with LPF provisions).

The question is what does it do to the tories. You still have 80~100ish ERG types who will shit the bed (they voted this down under May - would they do it again). And an unknown number of new intake Tories who could join with them. No doubt Farage will raise his ugly head and relaunch his grift vehicle/political party and start hammering the tories from the other side. Does anyone have the appetite to do a version of 2019 all over again but almost entirely within the confines of the tory party or do they just roll over and accept the inevitable consequence (i.e. it was inevitable that no political party would ever do no deal and the EU would always have their price for SM access).
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Vote? What makes you think MPs are getting a vote on any deal?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Bothered?

You guys have much experience with people from Eccles, Weaste and Lower Broughton???

If so - come across many Tories??

No - you are simply incapable of objective thinking and have never gotten your heads around the simple fact that not all Brexit supporters are Tories
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No. I said early on Labour were in a much tougher position than the Cons because their voter base were much more evenly split on Brexit. On one side they had the ‘lexit’ left voting for it and on the other they had many people in the working class areas voting for it. That they then lost the vote of the northern towns in a GE wasn’t much of a surprise to anyone. Furthermore we continue to be divided and those that ‘leant’ their vote to the Cons will remain Cons because the landscape of politics has changed, possibly forever.
 
mcfc1632 said:
This goes to the heart of why we should push on and not have any further extensions - and of course also why the rear-guard of Remainers and the EU want extensions.

It probably is close to 50/50 - but is we Leave at the end of 2020 - then have 4 years before the next election - there is going to be very reduced appetite for a message of undertaking a rejoin campaign - and Labour would therefore not adopt such a message.

If we Leave at the end of 2020 (properly - not theoretically) - then it is done for generations and the continuous decline that will be caused by continued EU membership or being subject to EU regulations can be arrested.
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
Ban-jani said:
If it goes completely and utterly tits up there will likely be another election sooner and no doubt Starmer will campaign on a rejoin ticket.

If it’s bad but not a disaster or anything better than that, your post is correct.
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Well of course that is a given - it Leaving the EU leads to disastrous outcomes then we will be cap in hand back to rejoin on the EU's terms, but...……...

That is not going to happen - and that is not just my thinking it is also the realisation of the EU and that is why they do not want the UK to be free to operate as an independent nation - they want to be able to control/limit our policies and thereby the risk of our success

If it was going to quickly become a disaster for the UK they would be waving us off and preparing the terms for our rejoining wouldn't they - and they are not

Only the increasingly irrelevant doom-mongers hold this view that the UK cannot exist outside the supervision of the EU
 
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jay_mcfc said:
No. I said early on Labour were in a much tougher position than the Cons because their voter base were much more evenly split on Brexit. On one side they had the ‘lexit’ left voting for it and on the other they had many people in the working class areas voting for it. That they then lost the vote of the northern towns in a GE wasn’t much of a surprise to anyone. Furthermore we continue to be divided and those that ‘leant’ their vote to the Cons will remain Cons because the landscape of politics has changed, possibly forever.
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All spot on - so your previous message I replied to confuses me as I have been against EU membership since long before I ever started to question the indoctrination that was my upbringing.

But - OK - it seems we agree
 
mcfc1632 said:
Well of course that is a given - it Leaving the EU leads to a disastrous outcomes then we will be cap in hand back to rejoin on the EU's terms, but...……...

That is not going to happen - and that is not just my thinking it is also the realisation of the EU and that is why they do not want the UK to be free to operate as an independent nation - they want to be able to control/limit our policies

If it was going to quickly become a disaster for the UK they would be waving us off and preparing the terms for our rejoining - they are not

Only the increasingly irrelevant doom-mongers hold this view that the UK cannot exist outside the supervision of the EU
Click to expand...

Well I hope you’re right and it’s not a total fuck up.

Covid-19 has done enough damage.
 
mcfc1632 said:
All spot on - so your previous message I replied to confuses me as I have been against EU membership since long before I ever started to question the indoctrination that was my upbringing.

But - OK - it seems we agree
Click to expand...

I was laughing at you calling yourself balanced but as usual it went right over your head.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Well of course that is a given - it Leaving the EU leads to disastrous outcomes then we will be cap in hand back to rejoin on the EU's terms, but...……...

That is not going to happen - and that is not just my thinking it is also the realisation of the EU and that is why they do not want the UK to be free to operate as an independent nation - they want to be able to control/limit our policies and thereby the risk of our success

If it was going to quickly become a disaster for the UK they would be waving us off and preparing the terms for our rejoining wouldn't they - and they are not

Only the increasingly irrelevant doom-mongers hold this view that the UK cannot exist outside the supervision of the EU
Click to expand...

Considering the UK will have spent over 200bn quid by the time they leave how many EU nations do you think have that kind of money to piss up the wall?
 
jay_mcfc said:
I was laughing at you calling yourself balanced but as usual it went right over your head.
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Ah - sorry - that is fair - I mistook it for you suggesting that I was some Tory - as that is a mis-conception of a number of posters on here.

TBF - I am indeed a very balanced individual apart from anything to do with CITY - the Scum and (nowadays) Brexit

So you have me bang to rights and it was indeed a whoosh
 
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