Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I agree, sort of.
If the result of the referendum had been remain and Parliament had chosen to exercise Article 50 anyway and leave the EU, I wouldn't have agreed with that.
Even though it was the law, and the procedures had been followed, it wouldn't sit right.

As for Gina Miller - read about her. She said before the case it was all about process, and after the case, when Parliament followed the result, wrote to Corbyn (Nov 18) saying what a disaster Brexit was and pushing for a people's vote. It is a long ish letter but worth reading, but what I liked best was the last line - "You have the power to both ensure an option to remain is included in the parliamentary meaningful vote, and if this vote results in an impasse, ensure there is a public vote, so the people of the United Kingdom can throw parliament a democratic lifeline to end this chaos." . Clever lady, fighting for her views, legally, and nothing wrong with that. But not an impartial advocate of Parliamentary sovereignty.

Ultimately she was right about process / law. Whether her motivations for raising and pressing the issue were ulterior is another issue.

 

[GH64]

I’d argue that the first action to give parliament the vote was a different scenario to the latter.

She was clearly a remainer but her first action was completely justified. If you think the latter wasn’t, it doesn’t take away from what she did to ensure parliamentary sovereignty in the first instance.

She’s not a martyr or a leader or someone people are deeply connected to on an emotional level, I don’t care what she does with the rest of her career, I am just saying she was right to do that.

I'm not saying she wasn't right to do them, both were 100% justified (hard to argue against because she won both cases) However it didn't result in the eventual outcome that she wanted, which was that the UK remained in the EU.

 

[mcfc1632]

She certainly comes across as a self important cockwomble:

My letter to Jeremy Corbyn: your nation is threatened – back a people’s vote | Brexit | The Guardian

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm not saying she wasn't right to do them, both were 100% justified (hard to argue against because she won both cases) However it didn't result in the eventual outcome that she wanted, which was that the UK remained in the EU.

That for me, is besides the point. I couldn’t really care for the personalities of lawyers, they’re there to do a job and uphold the law.

She’s done what she did, it was correct and now she’s irrelevant to the situation of Brexit.

 

[mexico1970]

2 days ago the BBC were announcing that there are hours to the deadline for a deal, but they are still holed up in hotels getting smashed on expenses cards taking as much time as they want over this.

 

[GH64]

History though will, or at least should, recognise that she was responsible for stopping May using executive powers to push through a deal that would have been far worse than membership

God bless her I say

And Grieve

And Soubry

And Bercow

etc.

Oh - the sweet irony of how things turned out - if not for their efforts......

It didn't do that. It stopped the exercise of Article 50 temporarily until Parliament voted it through with a huge majority.
They had a week of debates on the bill, which was 137 words long, which basically said we give notice under Article 50 that we are going to leave. And that was viewed as pushing it through quickly.
How they are going to check "the deal" if one comes I have no idea,
At least they aren't going anywhere for Christmas.

 

[west didsblue]

She certainly comes across as a self important cockwomble:

My letter to Jeremy Corbyn: your nation is threatened – back a people’s vote | Brexit | The Guardian

You would be the expert in self important cockwombles for obvious reasons.

 

[meltonblue]

She certainly comes across as a self important cockwomble:

My letter to Jeremy Corbyn: your nation is threatened – back a people’s vote | Brexit | The Guardian

She’s successfully challenged the government twice for unlawful practices. I’d argue she’s validated if she does feel self important. It’s a shame and a damning on parliament she had to do either of the challenges in the first place.

 

[Chris in London]

Not really. A lot has been written about both cases, and I'm pretty clear on them.
I'm not saying that she did something wrong or that the decisions in the courts were wrong, but I just don't think she would have been the one pushing it if she believed that Brexit was a good idea. If she's a mad Brexiter but an absolute stickler for Parliamentary procedure then I take it all back.
And will expect a challenge to the legality of any deal put forward now because its going to be really long and they won't have time to read it properly.

Thought so.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Do you not think Universal Credit is an issue then? Do you think it’s a resounding success and the government deserve a pat on the back for it?

A foreign trip isn’t for the elite, certainly not, but I cannot fathom how the lowest 10% of earners can possibly afford to go, especially anyone on Universal Credit taking 5/6 trips.

I'll answer your questions when you show me where i;ve said UC is too low.

We have the lowest welfare benefits and State Pensions in Europe so I think that answers the question.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Soooo....... The Royal Navy has announced that UK waters will be patrolled by 4 ships which will operate on a 2 in port ... 2 on patrol basis.

These ships have a top speed of 20 nautical miles per hour.

Total length of the UK coastline is 7000 miles.

So it could only take a week to get to any fishing boat illegally catching fish.

 

[jaseirai]

Soooo....... The Royal Navy has announced that UK waters will be patrolled by 4 ships which will operate on a 2 in port ... 2 on patrol basis.

These ships have a top speed of 20 nautical miles per hour.

Total length of the UK coastline is 7000 miles.

So it could only take a week to get to any fishing boat illegally catching fish.

You don't need any ships to find out where they are.

MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic

MarineTraffic Live Ships Map. Discover information and vessel positions for vessels around the world. Search the MarineTraffic ships database of more than 550000 active and decommissioned vessels. Search for popular ships globally. Find locations of ports and ships using the near Real Time ships...

www.marinetraffic.com

Any shortage of ships can be mitigated with Reapers armed with Hellfires or Chinooks with SBS on board.

This is the super trawler The Margiris identified above. It's the second largest in the world.

Fears over threat from 'monster' ship spotted off UK coast

The boat has a deadweight of 6,200 tonnes and has been tracked off the southern coast.

metro.co.uk

 

[west didsblue]

You don't need any ships to find out where they are.

MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic

MarineTraffic Live Ships Map. Discover information and vessel positions for vessels around the world. Search the MarineTraffic ships database of more than 550000 active and decommissioned vessels. Search for popular ships globally. Find locations of ports and ships using the near Real Time ships...

www.marinetraffic.com

How do we find them if they turn their AIS transponders off whilst illegally fishing? I assume you’ve thought it through.

Any shortage of ships can be mitigated with Reapers armed with Hellfires or Chinooks with SBS on board.

Is that a serious comment?
Really?

 

[jaseirai]

How do we find them if they turn their AIS transponders off whilst illegally fishing? I assume you’ve thought it through.


Is that a serious comment?
Really?

When they illegally turn off AIS they are identified too. Orange ones that just say fishing when you hover a mouse over.
There's usually loads, especially near Shetland.

 

[west didsblue]

When they illegally turn off AIS they are identified too. Orange ones that just say fishing when you hover a mouse over.
There's usually loads, especially near Shetland.

Thought so.
You haven’t a clue so you’ve posted some rubbish.

 

[jaseirai]

Thought so.
You haven’t a clue so you’ve posted some rubbish.

Enlighten me then. Why do some say out of range when they are near other boats which are identified? A Convent equipment fault?

 

[west didsblue]

Enlighten me then. Why do some say out of range when they are near other boats which are identified? A Convent equipment fault?

The out of range ones will be displayed at their last known position, not at the position they are actually at. If they are doing it deliberately to avoid detection because of an intention to illegally fish it’s unlikely they would just sail it to the fishing grounds with AIS on then suddenly switch it off when they get there as that would be a red flag. They are likely to be more devious than that.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Not really. A lot has been written about both cases, and I'm pretty clear on them.
I'm not saying that she did something wrong or that the decisions in the courts were wrong, but I just don't think she would have been the one pushing it if she believed that Brexit was a good idea. If she's a mad Brexiter but an absolute stickler for Parliamentary procedure then I take it all back.
And will expect a challenge to the legality of any deal put forward now because its going to be really long and they won't have time to read it properly.

Gina deserves our eternal gratitude and deserves to be decorated for her efforts. John Major, Anna Soubry, Owen Jones, Hugh Grant, Lord Adonis and Bob Geldof to be mentioned in dispatches.

 

[jaseirai]

The out of range ones will be displayed at their last known position, not at the position they are actually at. If they are doing it deliberately to avoid detection because of an intention to illegally fish it’s unlikely they would just sail it to the fishing grounds with AIS on then suddenly switch it off when they get there as that would be a red flag. They are likely to be more devious than that.

Why does it say "identifyed by satellite" then?

 

[mcfc1632]

It didn't do that. It stopped the exercise of Article 50 temporarily until Parliament voted it through with a huge majority.
They had a week of debates on the bill, which was 137 words long, which basically said we give notice under Article 50 that we are going to leave. And that was viewed as pushing it through quickly.
How they are going to check "the deal" if one comes I have no idea,
At least they aren't going anywhere for Christmas.

I was looking beyond that

Had May been allowed to she would have done the WA, PD and TA without recourse to parliament