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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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stonerblue
Well-Known Member
Just how the tories like it.
BobKowalski
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As I have said quite a lot - I am no fan of Johnson at all.
Just found these last pages loaded with the extreme bias of the Remainers and 'leftys' - tripping over each other to be 'holier than though'.
Utterly one way and OTT - and of course utterly ignoring the provocative and inflammatory language used by those on the 'other side'
Just been a Remainer wankfest on here - jumping on the chance to be 'outraged' IMO. FFS, some on here making lots of comments are the same people often found making extreme and abusive/aggressive/argumentative posts on here lol
'Proper' middle ground people like myself and quite a few others on here, who just happen to support Leaving the EU, can laugh at the double-standards and faux outrage.
All this angst will die down - Johnson is a buffoon and will not last long - let's just hope he is inflamed enough to find a way to get Brexit done despite all the efforts and determination of the EU Sycophants and their 'surrender bills'.
I’m not convinced that your description of yourself as a ‘proper middle ground’ person and phrases such as ‘Remainer wankfest’, EU sycophants’ and ‘surrender bills’ are entirely compatible.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Johnson is on a twin track 1) trying to get a deal 2) preparing for an election.A good summation of where we are currently...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...-s-bid-to-reach-brexit-deal-with-eu-1.4031840
All the evidence in his behaviours is that he is paying lip service to trying to get a deal. Anything he comes up with will need to go through the HoC and he is hardly smoothing that path. Quite the reverese. His real effort is to win hearts and minds that parliament and the rest of the establishment is ‘the enemy’ and is stopping the will of the people. Only voting for him will deliver Brexit. It worked for him before with the referendum. It may well work again.
Instead of lies on the side of buses we will get even more of ‘surrender bills’ ‘traitors’ and the like. Straight from Cummings playbook. Strengthening the divisions rather than trying to heal them, but what the hell if it delivers a win.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Can't say fairer than that.
The whole "yeah but what's the point, we may as just remain" argument doesn't fly with many of us who respect the electorate.
No, you respect 'some' of the electorate.
The rest of leave voters, who don't agree with you, no longer count.
You have no more 'respect' for their position than I do.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
I can’t agree with you. Johnson’s behaviour is unprecedented and unique for a PM. I suspect the outrage is honestly felt. It certainly is personally. I no longer have confidence that there is a majority of people in England that can see Johnson’s behaviour for what it is and I think he has a reasonable chance of getting a majority in any near future election. If he does you will get your Brexit. What state the U.K. will be in by then is an altogether different question.As I have said quite a lot - I am no fan of Johnson at all.
Just found these last pages loaded with the extreme bias of the Remainers and 'leftys' - tripping over each other to be 'holier than though'.
Utterly one way and OTT - and of course utterly ignoring the provocative and inflammatory language used by those on the 'other side'
Just been a Remainer wankfest on here - jumping on the chance to be 'outraged' IMO. FFS, some on here making lots of comments are the same people often found making extreme and abusive/aggressive/argumentative posts on here lol
'Proper' middle ground people like myself and quite a few others on here, who just happen to support Leaving the EU, can laugh at the double-standards and faux outrage.
All this angst will die down - Johnson is a buffoon and will not last long - let's just hope he is inflamed enough to find a way to get Brexit done despite all the efforts and determination of the EU Sycophants and their 'surrender bills'.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Johnson is on a twin track 1) trying to get a deal 2) preparing for an election.
All the evidence in his behaviours is that he is paying lip service to trying to get a deal. Anything he comes up with will need to go through the HoC and he is hardly smoothing that path. Quite the reverese. His real effort is to win hearts and minds that parliament and the rest of the establishment is ‘the enemy’ and is stopping the will of the people. Only voting for him will deliver Brexit. It worked for him before with the referendum. It may well work again.
Instead of lies on the side of buses we will get even more of ‘surrender bills’ ‘traitors’ and the like. Straight from Cummings playbook. Strengthening the divisions rather than trying to heal them, but what the hell if it delivers a win.
Then the question is, if he succeeds in rounding up those people to vote for him, what are we left with, if he wins ?
He will have coralled all of those who shout 'traitor' & want to kick off, all of those who wanted Brexit for unethical reasons, & including the extreme far right, under one banner whilst alienating some of the less extreme Brexit voters.
In order to get elected, he then needs enough people to stand with those types & ignore the fact they are doing so.
But if he wins, he now needs all of those far right & general nutter voters, forever. Because that is now his party's 'base'. The 'centre' has gone.
What other policies, will that sort of 'base' want to see, from the Party which now depends on their vote ?
Absolutely zero chance of no-deal Brexit if there is a majority to support Leave IMOA question I asked in another thread and so far Only Bob answered.
If Boris did win an election with a landslide majority (as one member predicted), would a No Deal Brexit be more or less likely?
It has been obvious that we will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it.
My prediction would be that in the - highly unlikely - event that such a majority is returned within a couple of days we would see the EU agree to arrangements that we were discussing a couple of days ago, i.e. the backstop fettered in such a way that all parties can save face (but it will be fettered) with the genuine backstop being the Irish sea option.
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Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Policies? Who needs them. They just need to invent a new enemy every couple of years.Then the question is, if he succeeds in rounding up those people to vote for him, what are we left with, if he wins ?
He will have coralled all of those who shout 'traitor' & want to kick off, all of those who wanted Brexit for unethical reasons, & including the extreme far right, under one banner whilst alienating some of the less extreme Brexit voters.
In order to get elected, he then needs enough people to stand with those types & ignore the fact they are doing so.
But if he wins, he now needs all of those far right & general nutter voters, forever. Because that is now his party's 'base'. The 'centre' has gone.
What other policies, will that sort of 'base' want to see, from the Party which now depends on their vote ?
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Absolutely zero chance of no-deal Brexit if there is a majority to support Leave IMO
It has been obvious that we will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it.
My prediction would be that in the - highly unlikely - even that such a majority is returned within a couple of days we would see the EU agree to arrangements that we were discussing a couple of days ago, i.e. the backstop fettered in such a way that all parties can save face (but it will be fettered) with the genuine backstop being the Irish sea option.
Which requires the Conservative and Unionist Party, to shit all over the 'Unionist' part.
The 'true colours' and prejudices of 'the many' have come to the fore these last couple of daysMaybe the rich shouldn't employ the poor anymore so as to protect your sensitivities Vic?
When not on the thread for a couple of days I try to show respect by still going through every page as I catch-up.
On this occasion I have had to jump over so many pages just dripping with the utopian (naïve) politics of envy and extremism...
Most of it is not really Brexit related and should be on a specific politics thread - perhaps we should have a: "post here to pour out decades frustration and envy and generally rant thread'
Been a good time to be travelling to sunnier climes.
Gabriel
Well-Known Member
Which requires the Conservative and Unionist Party, to shit all over the 'Unionist' part.
But you'll likely neither see it nor smell it for all the fresh money that would be pumped into both sides of the island by Brussels and Westminster. :-o
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Policies? Who needs them. They just need to invent a new enemy every couple of years.
That is exactly what I think will happen.
In order for people like that to remain in power, they have to keep their core voters angry with somebody & indeed scared. I recon getting the IRA back in full swing would fit in nicely along with perhaps a pointless aggression toward a Muslim country. Then they can 'do deals' to buy weapons from Donald Trump.
That's the kind of shit wecwill see, if these people manage to get full control of Parliament & it will just degenerate, from there.
Stopping them is far more important than Brexit imo & that's coming from someone who, like yourself, used to have no strong political leaning to either side. This is different gravy.
AlgarveBlu
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And it was all going so well last time I looked in here.
What happened?
Full update summary available on page 1 of this thread
They would vote it down of courseI hope a certain scenario comes to pass, if only for giggles. (For I am at the point of beyond caring whether we stay in, leave or volunteer to become the 51st US state. I really can't give much of a toss any more).
But for giggles, Johnson gets a not bad deal from the EU - surprisingly not bad in fact. And he comes back to the HoC and says, here you go, Parliament, vote for this.
What on EARTH do the various factions do? It would be spectacularly funny, watching them tie themselves in knots over it.
This has not been about securing a deal or respecting the referendum for Labour for 2 years - just about getting another election (piss funny that when you see them running scared - just how do they keep running after November?)
For LibDems of course there has never been intention of backing any deal and of course there are a whole bunch of liars in the Conservative ranks that have only ever intended to undermine the referendum
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
But you'll likely neither see it nor smell it for all the fresh money that would be pumped into both sides of the island by Brussels and Westminster. :-o
It would also require support of Mogg & his gangsters, who are very good friends with the Unionists.
Oh - a bit like this thread if you are a Leave supporter??? ;-)A place where many of the liberties we take for granted are gradually taken away & people are bullied out of doing anything about it.
A place where extremism, is normal & centrism is 'far right'.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
They would vote it down of course
This has not been about securing a deal or respecting the referendum for Labour for 2 years - just about getting another election (piss funny that when you see them running scared - just how to they keep running after November?)
For LibDems of course there has never been intention of backing any deal and of course there a re a whole bunch of liars in the Conservative ranks that have only ever intended to undermine the referendum
And yet those Conservatives are not the ones who voted against May's deal, they all voted for it, 3 times.
BobKowalski
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Johnson is on a twin track 1) trying to get a deal 2) preparing for an election.
All the evidence in his behaviours is that he is paying lip service to trying to get a deal. Anything he comes up with will need to go through the HoC and he is hardly smoothing that path. Quite the reverese. His real effort is to win hearts and minds that parliament and the rest of the establishment is ‘the enemy’ and is stopping the will of the people. Only voting for him will deliver Brexit. It worked for him before with the referendum. It may well work again.
Instead of lies on the side of buses we will get even more of ‘surrender bills’ ‘traitors’ and the like. Straight from Cummings playbook. Strengthening the divisions rather than trying to heal them, but what the hell if it delivers a win.
I would say his primary goal is to win the election and the rhetoric will get dialled up not down as headlines like ‘Deliver Brexit or face riots’ will testify too but Johnson also needs a transition period because winning an election with everything else turning to ash isn’t ideal either. The EU can see a window. A NI backstop rather than a U.K. is their preference. Maybe a backstop that isn’t time limited but has a ‘deadline’ to deliver special arrangements? Won’t get ERG support but might give MPs in the centre something to coalesce round.
Except Johnson has trashed his chances of bringing MPs together but what if it isn’t Johnson but someone else? What if Labour’s price for a deal is not only the worker safeguards they want but Johnson’s head? SNP are now supporting the idea of a temporary Govt with Corbyn. To say things in Parliament are in a state of flux is an understatement so I can see a situation where the EU does a bit of fancy footwork on the drafting and MPs gratefully embrace pretty much anything to get us and them off the hook.
Wouldn’t put any money on it mind you :)
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Oh - a bit like this thread if you are a Leave supporter??? ;-)
Yes, exactly.
Where some leave voters have seen the words & actions of the far right, as acceptable, when perhaps at one time in the past, they would have seen it for what it is & wanted nothing to do with it.
The 'centre' is now the right.
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