Another new Brexit thread

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Chippy_boy said:
I don't know it to be the case at all. That he is driven and makes seemingly wreckless decisions at times, is not in doubt. But the "he will do anything" line is absolute pure speculation.
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Okay, he’s not murdered anyone yet, I’ll give you that.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I'm not surprised you'd read it that way.

I DO respect the hard leave vote, I even share their desire to leave the EU, but i'm also raising the point that if leaving the EU is their end goal, they must have compromises on their position, same with the remainers. Staying connected to Europe and trade is their goal, but they also must reach a compromise by relinquishing certain aspects of being connected to Europe, namely being an EU member.

You're the one who wishes to completely disregard both soft and hard leave voters points of view, as well as some of the compromising remainers who feel we should leave in order to honour and respect democracy.
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No, just like you want them to 'compromise' on their reason for leaving, which means they have no reason for leaving, as that was their reason for leaving, I want you all to 'compromise' by chucking it in & blagging the EU, to instead giving us a better 'deal' within the EU.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Absolutely zero chance of no-deal Brexit if there is a majority to support Leave IMO

It has been obvious that we will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it.

My prediction would be that in the - highly unlikely - even that such a majority is returned within a couple of days we would see the EU agree to arrangements that we were discussing a couple of days ago, i.e. the backstop fettered in such a way that all parties can save face (but it will be fettered) with the genuine backstop being the Irish sea option.
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You could be right but with the DUP out of the equation why is Boris playing such silly bugger games now. Why would he not have gone down that route now?
The main stumbling block to that arrangement is your own parliament voting for it.
He has not done anything to encourage cross party support for anything and there is of course his own party, the ERG, to contend with too.
Would they be willing to put their own red lines up for negotiation?
 
Gabriel said:
Small point from the BBC.

‘EU rules on how to deal with a departing country - the so-called Article 50 text - don't specify that an extension request must come from a government but rather from "the member state concerned".’
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I thought I’d read a quote from an Eu official that they would only deal with “the government or a representative of the government” ?
 
Neville Kneville said:
So the opposition is not at fault for 'stopping Brexit' then ? They are doing the right thing, according to you ?

Unless the Government has offered them another alternative deal to vote on ?

Have they ?

The opposition did of course offer the Government chance to work on a Brexit deal of their preference & pass that through.

Did the Conservatives go with it ?
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I thought that comment summed things up beautifully. (some) Brexiters aren't kicking off that we don't have a deal, they are kicking off because it's not what they want, and unless they get what they want they are going to stamp their feet and claim that democracy is broken. Saw a brexiter MP being interviewed the other day and his arrogance was staggering. He was kicking off about a deal not being agreed, and it was then pointed out he'd voted against a deal three times.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Because no matter the faux outrage on here, from a POV of negotiations that bill entirely surrenders the UK position to the EU
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You need to make the propper DISCRIMINATIONS for the meaning of a word, surrender is incorrectly used here.

See, there are even distinctions of surrender. There is "unconditional surrender" and a sort of surrender then that is not unconditional. Unconditional surrender would basicly mean "Brittain gives in to all demands the Eu makes and wants to make regarding Brexit withought any say of the goverment" as in the case of an unconditional surrender the goverment would have give it's fiat in advance to accept whatever the other demands. In such a case the EU would be fully free to write the the document asit pleases and stamp it. Conditional surrender would mean: "The Eu can demand whatever it wants besides a few of our conditions."In such a case the case the EU could do much the same safe for making a decission on the conditions unless it (re)negotiates.

The Eu however does not have the right to write and ammend freely at will with a fiat of the British goverment beyond their desired conditions or withought conditions. The EU negotiates a deal with the Uk and the UK has the final say over every detail at the end of the process and a choice to accept it or not.
 
bluejon said:
I thought that comment summed things up beautifully. (some) Brexiters aren't kicking off that we don't have a deal, they are kicking off because it's not what they want, and unless they get what they want they are going to stamp their feet and claim that democracy is broken. Saw a brexiter MP being interviewed the other day and his arrogance was staggering. He was kicking off about a deal not being agreed, and it was then pointed out he'd voted against a deal three times.
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Some of the ones on here are suddenly talking about chucking their 'brothers in democracy' under a bus now by accepting a 'compromise' which would end in them spitting blood.

Some of the same people have said in the past they would back Farage. Well he wouldn't fucking 'back' them, & neither would Boris. They are now 'traitors' & willing to 'surrender'.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Don't disagree about the possibility of Scexit (I just made that up) if we were to leave the EU, and even if we don't - although it would then be MUCH less likely.

But neither you or I have any clue of the extent to which Johnson and Cummings value the Union, or not. It's pure speculation. Scotland leaving has been something that would favour the Tories from a westminster arithmetic standpoint for decades. And never have any of them advocated it, or even hinted at that. Never.
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Might not know for sure until he writes it on a bus but everything Johnson does smacks of his motives being relating to consolidating his own position of power irrespective of the consequences. Johnson's concern for the wellbeing and unity of the country appears to be well down any priority list behind his personal ambitions.
There are already 21 Tory MPs that have abandoned him and more would follow if they had the balls to do it.
Even his own brother and sister think he's a ****.
The reason previous Tory governments have stood up for the union and not advocated for Scotland breaking away is that they have always had leaders that have wanted what's best for the country rather than wanting power at any cost. Many in northern towns who felt that Thatcher shat on them in the 80s wouldn't agree but I think her motivation was to improve the country's economy for the long term.
The cost of any Scottish breakaway would be huge and this is the first time we've had a PM who's happy to see the country go to hell in a hand cart if it secures his position as PM for the long term. He will invent a bogeyman to blame for the shit we're in every year or two until enough of the population finally see through him.
You need to take your blinkers off.
 
FlemishDuck said:
You need to make the propper DISCRIMINATIONS for the meaning of a word, surrender is incorrectly used here.

See, there are even distinctions of surrender. There is "unconditional surrender" and a sort of surrender then that is not unconditional. Unconditional surrender would basicly mean "Brittain gives in to all demands the Eu makes and wants to make regarding Brexit withought any say of the goverment" as in the case of an unconditional surrender the goverment would have give it's fiat in advance to accept whatever the other demands. In such a case the EU would be fully free to write the the document asit pleases and stamp it. Conditional surrender would mean: "The Eu can demand whatever it wants besides a few of our conditions."In such a case the case the EU could do much the same safe for making a decission on the conditions unless it (re)negotiates.

The Eu however does not have the right to write and ammend freely at will with a fiat of the British goverment beyond their desired conditions or withought conditions. The EU negotiates a deal with the Uk and the UK has the final say over every detail at the end of the process and a choice to accept it or not.
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There is also the fact that, if the EU acted dishonestly re the 'unfettered backstop' & were obviously just holding us prisoner, we would just tell them to fuck off & the current Brexit would be like a Mariah Carey Christmas video, compared to what we would do then.
 
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