Another new Brexit thread

[hgblue]

I would definitely have voted leave if it was not for Farage

I can definitely agree with you that the left wing case for leaving wasn’t well represented, but for that I’m blaming Jeremy Corbyn. There’s a hell of a lot of Labour Leavers who are feeling abandoned by the party and this will cost them big time at the election.

 

[Vic]

All the trigger words deployed there, pity I thought we were trying to conduct this debate rationally. The facts are clear enough - just watch the actual footage in the BBC documentary 58' in. From the moment May was installed as PM instead of a leaver, the Tory remain majority were in charge, successive Brexit Secretaries were undermined as they tried to recover a serious negotiating position. May's red lines were purely decorative, the EU's objectives of an upfront divorce settlement and no trade talks until after we left were never challenged and our agreement to the indefinite Irish Protocol provisions made the WA unpassable in the HoC. The ERG undeniably played a major part in this fiasco as it dragged on and on but they were actually empowered by the remainer camp's tactics.

I have no idea what you think the documentary is showing but it obviously isn't the EU choreographing opposition to Brexit. They don't know what on earth we're doing.

And if you think May's red lines were "decorative" rather than destructive (of a deal) I'm afraid the delusion is terminal.

 

[Vic]

You're probably not just experiencing the influx of migrants tho .... The cities in the UK are seeing population growth from rural areas... my three kids have now all left home and they have moved into towns and cities. Our village has very very few people in the 18 / 30 bracket ... we're either older or very young.

and the fact that waiting lists and infrastructure haven't kept up is the Governments fault ....

How many EU migrants live in the village?

Are you saying that young British citizens leaving rural areas is a migrant problem in our cities?

 

[BobKowalski]

Betting on the extension seems to favour a new Brexit date of end of June although we may do it two stages.

So how are people planning to spend next ‘Not Brexit’ day of 31st October? Do we see this becoming an annual or bi-annual event? Should we make it a public holiday?

 

[George Hannah]

I have no idea what you think the documentary is showing but it obviously isn't the EU choreographing opposition to Brexit. They don't know what on earth we're doing. And if you think May's red lines were "decorative" rsther than destructive (of a deal) I'm afraid the delusion is terminal.

What else would you call the UK following their sequencing of talks? There was no negotiation once we accepted that, everything else was designed to create the illusion that a meaningful debate was continuing. If you can reply without resorting to personal abuse it would lift the tone of the discussion btw.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Betting on the extension seems to favour a new Brexit date of end of June although we may do it two stages.

So how are people planning to spend next ‘Not Brexit’ day of 31st October? Do we see this becoming an annual or bi-annual event? Should we make it a public holiday?

I will be spending it looking out for ditches to see if I find a prime minister in there.

 

[yerwot?]

I was utterly correct 'then' and I am undoubtedly utterly correct 'now' - absolutely consistent.[/QUOTE]

"CONSISTENT".....Repeating, in the most condescendingly way possible, with the "sneer factor turned to eleven" the same lies and diversions, obfuscations and mis-quotes in the most pretentious self-important ego-lead pompous piffle ever inflicted on this thread. Consistent alright, "utterly correct" ? In the world of trump and johnson maybe, where truth is an abstract concept, degraded and dismissed "consistently" to the point that being caught lying is met with a smirk , and cheers from the captive audience of far-right goons, like ghastly canned laughter in an english sit-com and the inevitable "likes" from the brexit amdram troupe #Victimcentral

 

[Vic]

Found this quite close to my thinking on his plan.
https://news.sky.com/story/a-brexit-extension-could-be-just-what-boris-johnson-wants-11827675

Buried in there is the King over the water comment - the idea that having Johnson as a rival was May's biggest problem in getting a deal.

 

[west didsblue]

Another post of just rambling

We get it - you don't want Brexit - you want it all scrapped. All you have just written is simply bollocks born out of your frustration and not being able to shout people down - It is not anyone else's fault if you cannot read and take things on board.

When you go on holiday and are in situations where a local cannot understand what you are saying (a frequent occurrence I am sure) - I bet your answer is to say exactly the same thing in an increasingly loud and shouty voice

Finally some self awareness.

 

[blueparrot]

Buried in there is the King over the water comment - the idea that having Johnson as a rival was May's biggest problem in getting a deal.

Yes, it's what makes whatever Johnson says or does fairly irrelevant to his position as leader , there is no viable alternative if he falls.

 

[yerwot?]

Found this quite close to my thinking on his plan.
https://news.sky.com/story/a-brexit-extension-could-be-just-what-boris-johnson-wants-11827675

Im with you on this, the concerted powers behind brexit will not leave any devious dirty trick in the locker, and this will be a weapon no doubt. (anyone but corbyn and it would be impossible) ffs

 

[mat]

So what’s the current score?

Boris likely to get his deal through Parliament?

His aides are claiming he has the numbers with quiet a few labour MP's in leave voting areas happy with it. We shall see mind..

 

[Vic]

The Brady amendment says you are wrong.

Isn't the Brady amendment what Boris Johnson has just suggested? Unworkable and non-existent "alternative arrangements"?

 

[Rascal]

I can definitely agree with you that the left wing case for leaving wasn’t well represented, but for that I’m blaming Jeremy Corbyn. There’s a hell of a lot of Labour Leavers who are feeling abandoned by the party and this will cost them big time at the election.

I do not feel abandoned by the Labour party at all, the case for LEXIT was not made because of the dominance of the Blairite wing on the issue. I would still have found it very difficult to vote leave even if the case for LEXIT was mainstream because siding with Farage made me feel sick. That was the big mistake allowing that odious **** to become the mainstream voice, if he had been sidelined and shown for what an obnoxious pile of dirt he is then I would have voted leave without question. The #FBFE crowd allowed Farage to get his message out by being so pro EU and so dismissive of the working class fears.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The Brady amendment says you are wrong.

It doesn't say anything of the sort.

We have been doing this for 3 fucking years.

3 years!

Why? Because the right have insisted during that time, on it being their way or the highway. But their way fails to solve the Irish border problem. So we can't leave.

16,141,241 people voted to remain.

Since losing that vote, their options have been: A right wing Brexit or 'no deal' & they can all just fucking wait as long as it takes for the right wing to force through either. That's it.

Has there been a time when the right say 'ok this isn't working & we should remember almost half the electorate of the time didn't vote for this at all, some of them have string ties to the EU, perhaps we have to move our position to get an agreement done, so they can get on with their lives ?

They are saying exactly the same shit now, as they were saying in Parliament directly afterwards. They just expect all those who didn't vote for it, to move over to their side, because they 'won'. You get nothing for coming 2nd sunshine.

Some leading Brexiteers ADVERTISED soft Brexit possibilities during the campaign.

So why, in this fucking never ending deadlock, haven't they explored those possibilities ? And why is one of the instigators, Farage, now promising to make it even worse, if he gets the chance, rather than delivering one of the Brexit ooptions he himself advertised ?

They are just cunts & it's all their fault.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Statistically net migration from rest of the world is higher each year than it is from the EU which we have full control of, yet the government haven't done anything about that.

Instead the real project fear of immigration has been levied over the British people with brexit and it's working to great effect

Yep fully aware of that - also needs control outside of the EU. two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Betting on the extension seems to favour a new Brexit date of end of June although we may do it two stages.

So how are people planning to spend next ‘Not Brexit’ day of 31st October? Do we see this becoming an annual or bi-annual event? Should we make it a public holiday?

That figures. Fucks me up for negotiating work in July nicely, after previously fucking up Spring & Autumn.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I do not feel abandoned by the Labour party at all, the case for LEXIT was not made because of the dominance of the Blairite wing on the issue. I would still have found it very difficult to vote leave even if the case for LEXIT was mainstream because siding with Farage made me feel sick. That was the big mistake allowing that odious **** to become the mainstream voice, if he had been sidelined and shown for what an obnoxious pile of dirt he is then I would have voted leave without question. The #FBFE crowd allowed Farage to get his message out by being so pro EU and so dismissive of the working class fears.

If there had been a decent opposition message, opposing Brexit, then we wouldn't be where we are now.

Just pointing out that whatever happened, it would be an absolute fucking mess, as it was not going to get an agreement in Parliament, which was easily predictable, & spelling that out to the public, would have been a start.

The useless Geography teacher faced **** could still have sat on the fence & explained that to people.

 

[Vic]

What else would you call the UK following their sequencing of talks? There was no negotiation once we accepted that, everything else was designed to create the illusion that a meaningful debate was continuing. If you can reply without resorting to personal abuse it would lift the tone of the discussion btw.

I say delusional, you say "incoherent" or "pitiful superficiality".

Anyway, you (following the usual suspect) were claiming that the EU was choreographing opposition to Brexit. You've switched to the obvious realisation that the Brexit negotiations were always going to be done on the EU's processes.

But thanks for the link to the campaign lies.

"We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave" — The official Brexit campaign in 2016

 

[SWP's back]

If the EU were to accept it, he would have a chance imo, as his Stormtroopers have now decided that they only object to one thing, he's bribed the Unionists with an opportunity to fuck up the GFA & another billion quid & the Tory rebels plus a section of Labour MPs want to get it done.

Unfrotunately, the EU think he's taking the piss.

Perhaps having a vote in Parliament prior to the EU agreeing would be his best option, then Parliament will likely fuck it off before the EU fucks it off & either way he 'did his best'.

So still a good chance we manage to avoid any sort of Brexit then?