Another new Brexit thread

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mancity2012_eamo said:
Where are you going with this argument MB.
It really does look like you are asking the asking the Remain side to come up with a workable Brexit strategy.

There is no consensus anywhere, why would you look in the minority who told you they weren’t part of a consensus in the first place, for the answer.

I just don’t get that.
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The argument has been that leavers haven't been able to agree on a brexit strategy, so that's the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

For those remainers who did respect the result, what has been their brexit strategy? Because if the answer is "they don't respect it", why would the leavers respect a 2nd vote result?

I've been asking for years to all those who voted remain, that claimed to respect the result, how should the UK go about leaving the EU, with few or no responses.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The argument has been that leavers haven't been able to agree on a brexit strategy, so that's the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

For those remainers who did respect the result, what has been their brexit strategy? Because if the answer is "they don't respect it", why would the leavers respect a 2nd vote result?

I've been asking for years to all those who voted remain, that claimed to respect the result, how should the UK go about leaving the EU, with few or no responses.
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The answer would clearly be "it shouldn't, the leave majority should find a workable option". Next you'll be expecting Labour to formulate policy for the Tory government.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The argument has been that leavers haven't been able to agree on a brexit strategy, so that's the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

For those remainers who did respect the result, what has been their brexit strategy? Because if the answer is "they don't respect it", why would the leavers respect a 2nd vote result?

I've been asking for years to all those who voted remain, that claimed to respect the result, how should the UK go about leaving the EU, with few or no responses.
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Is it not more down to the fact they couldn't get parliament to agree to a brexit strategy? They don't look like they're coming back to the people with all the different options on the table which arguably should've been the case in 2016, so its the govt's responsibility to get something through parliament, and its certainly not for remain voters to come up with the solution. the fact the 52% can't agree on how we leave either speaks volumes about this utter shambles.
 
aguero93:20 said:
The answer would clearly be "it shouldn't, the leave majority should find a workable option". Next you'll be expecting Labour to formulate policy for the Tory government.
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That's why Parliament is sovereign.

Brexit isn't a government policy, it's an electorates dictate. Labour voters also voted leave.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
That's why Parliament is sovereign.

Brexit isn't a government policy, it's an electorates dictate. Labour voters also voted leave.
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As did the ERG. They could have pushed it through, but decided to divide the Tory party in the WA votes. They're the reason you haven't Brexited. They hamstrung their own administration as only one form of Brexit was good enough for them, the one they didn't campaign for. Why the fuck should Labour, the SNP or the Lib Dems vote for any Tory Brexit when half the Tories won't vote for it? You may as well blame Sinn Fein for not showing up to vote for it. It's the job of the opposition to oppose and make sure the government actually have a majority behind their proposals and the leave side of Parliament (the Tories and DUP) couldn't agree a form of Brexit that was deliverable. Probably because they sold pain and disruption as sunny uplands.
 
aguero93:20 said:
As did the ERG. They could have pushed it through, but decided to divide the Tory party in the WA votes. They're the reason you haven't Brexited. They hamstrung their own administration as only one form of Brexit was good enough for them, the one they didn't campaign for. Why the fuck should Labour, the SNP or the Lib Dems vote for any Tory Brexit when half the Tories won't vote for it? You may as well blame Sinn Fein for not showing up to vote for it. It's the job of the opposition to oppose and make sure the government actually have a majority behind their proposals and the leave side of Parliament (the Tories and DUP) couldn't agree a form of Brexit that was deliverable. Probably because they sold pain and disruption as sunny uplands.
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That's going completely off the original point of my comment.

This was a reply to those stating that leavers had no collective "plan" for brexit. I wasn't hearing any from remainers, yet they all claimed to respect the result of the referendum.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
That's going completely off the original point of my comment.

This was a reply to those stating that leavers had no collective "plan" for brexit. I wasn't hearing any from remainers, yet they all claimed to respect the result of the referendum.
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As Labour respect the result of the last election. Should they be setting government policy?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The argument has been that leavers haven't been able to agree on a brexit strategy, so that's the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

For those remainers who did respect the result, what has been their brexit strategy? Because if the answer is "they don't respect it", why would the leavers respect a 2nd vote result?

I've been asking for years to all those who voted remain, that claimed to respect the result, how should the UK go about leaving the EU, with few or no responses.
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This is desperate stuff to deflect the blame onto remainers.
 
dave_blue12 said:
You should.

Johnsons strategy would appear to be to force no deal then call a GE which, using all methods of propaganda at his disposal, he will fight on the basis that it's all the fault of the EU.

He will, of course, be depicted as the only man who can stand up for the country further playing the nationalist xenophobic card.
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Then he should be mobilising for a no deal. The police and forces should be on notice with police leave cancelled from November onwards. Small businesses should be in receipt of all information and necessary forms to be able to trade with EU countries from Nov 1st. Storage, road capacity from ports increased, waiting areas expanded, staff being trained and hired and this is just a fraction of what we think needs to be done.

I get what you are saying but I don’t see calling an election whilst leaving the country deliberately unprepared as being a great move. Johnson will lose a chunk if not all of the Scottish MPs for starters. And what if Scotland simply defies Westminster? Or the Northern Irish parties use the courts to block no deal as they are not represented and London is in hock to the DUP? Welsh sheep farmers were threatening civil unrest the other week and they won’t be the only ones.

Just my take. Guess we will see how it plays out.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
This is desperate stuff to deflect the blame onto remainers.
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Doing no such thing.

I'm highlighting the hypocrisy of remainers trying to deflect the blame onto leavers, when they stated they respected the result but have backed no ascertainable brexit policy or method. Just kept banging on about "remaining".
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You're confusing the two. Brexit is now a Parliament issue.
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And remain MPs have voted on countless leave options, but seen as Brexit is a complete shambles there really isn’t a outcome that will make us prosper outside of the EU.

This was all highlighted by the remain camp before we even knew half the crap that was to come.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
And remain MPs have voted on countless leave options, but seen as Brexit is a complete shambles there really isn’t a outcome that will make us prosper outside of the EU.

This was all highlighted by the remain camp before we even knew half the crap that was to come.
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I'm mostly refering to remain voters who respected the result, but decided to support no brexit options.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The argument has been that leavers haven't been able to agree on a brexit strategy, so that's the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

For those remainers who did respect the result, what has been their brexit strategy? Because if the answer is "they don't respect it", why would the leavers respect a 2nd vote result?

I've been asking for years to all those who voted remain, that claimed to respect the result, how should the UK go about leaving the EU, with few or no responses.
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Not again. Leave and join EFTA if they'd have us. It's your own preferred solution.

2nd vote to remain and it's sorted. Status quo prevails and leavers can only not respect it by pretending we're not still in the EU.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
This is desperate stuff to deflect the blame onto remainers.
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did you ever think it would end up any other way? Leave were never going to take ownership of the incoming mess. I am surprised that the problem is Remain voters not having a stance on Brexit post referendum. If you voted Remain you kinda nailed your colours to a mast - not entirely sure how the much vaunted 17.4m winning voters can now consider its the losing side that has fucked it up. If 17.4 million of them can't sort it then its pretty self evident that its unsortable - it all goes back to those 17.4m people not all voting for the same idea whereas Remain did - stay.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
We respected the result , you won, had ample time to get us out and not damage the economy. You can’t and now expect remainers to come us with a solution without giving us a second referendum.
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Just backing a solution would have been preferable. It's a nationwide issue but some of you act like it doesn't concern you because you don;t support it.

Do people down tools just because the Government they didn't want got in power? Would you have had no concerns if people refused to respect a remain result, or called for another referendum until they got a leave result? That's not how I remember it being presented to us.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
We respected the result , you won, had ample time to get us out and not damage the economy. You can’t and now expect remainers to come us with a solution without giving us a second referendum.
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It is tantamount to the dippers changing tack and deciding they now think that it wasn't because we spend all the money that they lost last season but it was the woeful efforts of Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham that cost them the title.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Just backing a solution would have been preferable. It's a nationwide issue but some of you act like it doesn't concern you because you don;t support it.

Do people down tools just because the Government they didn't want got in power? Would you have had no concerns if people refused to respect a remain result, or called for another referendum until they got a leave result? That's not how I remember it being presented to us.
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No - if the govt they want doesn't get in they don't down tools they CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE GOVT THAT WON.............is it sinking in? A Remain result would not have been accepted - Farage himself said in an interview pre referendum that if Leave lost then he would get up 9am the following day and continue to campaign to Leave.
 
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