Another new Brexit thread

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lancs blue said:
That discounts the possibility of the Tories changing in the future. Unlikely perhaps but the possibility shouldn't be ignored.
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400 yrs of history in which not a single thing has been for the many, says it is safe to ignore ffs
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just a brief response - as the pool calls

You are to a large degree correct in your extrapolations - although I detect an emphasis that reflects your views, prejudices and assumptions and not my own.


1. "I glean from that you prefer no deal to Mays deal..... " Correct - unless the backstop is fettered by a time limit or other criteria that the UK can control​

2. "You would prefer to go through a unquantifiable ‘no deal’ economic hit than accept May’s deal and negotiate new trade arrangements with the EU that had an Irish backstop...…" That point seems the same as point 1 - so same answer

3. "You would rather mitigate the future risk of further Integration into the EU by ensuring there will need to be custom controls and the real risk of return to violence in Ireland." That seems largely the same as point 1 - so same answer, just adding that the political and economic future of the whole of the UK - can not be subject to the dictate of potential terrorism - I am surprised that you seem to suggest that it should. Personally I feel that the issue has been deliberately weaponised by the EU - abetted by Varadkar - and many UK citizens are lapping it up rather than being offended by that.

4. " As we have discussed before, a no deal will also increase the risk of independent Scotland and Ireland and the likely breakup of the U.K. interestingly, yesterday’s news included an estimate that a tech solution to the border is ten years away." The situation is not quite as you colour it is it? - there has been a significant movement within Scotland for independence for years anyway. What are you suggesting? - are we supposed to act like the EU and seek to prevent a nation enjoying the right of self-determination

Also - something that I have not seen even considered - The UK leaving the EU may in fact reduce the 'REAL' risk of Scotland leaving the union - can you, or any other Remainer understand why that this could be considered possible/likely?

5. "I am no closer to understanding the depth of fear and dislike around the risk of further EU integration....." It is satisfying to see an increasing level of honesty by Remainers with regard the inevitable consequences of the UK Remaining and why I say if we are to Remain - let's just get on with driving integration - because we are not going to be able to avoid it.

You are not the first person to show such honesty rather than hide behind the delusion of opt-outs and vetoes - but why has it taken over 3 years for this honesty to come to the fore is what baffles me
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A lengthy response but unfortunately it avoids answering my simple question 'why you and others would put a no deal Brexit in front of rescinding Article 50'
Your dismissal of the problems that a no deal brexit will create for the GFA lack any sort of depth
Your dismissal of the risks that no deal brexit impact on Scotland who voted heavily in favour of remaining are interesting. I guess that you are referring to similar problems with customs/borders if Scotland were to leave. Yes I get that, and I don't think Scottish independence is inevitable but more likely in a 'no deal' scenario.
I like discussing things with you mate, but only if you will do me the courtesy of answering my primary question. If you don't want to, say so, I could understand why you choose not to as well. Where are you btw?
 
bluethrunthru said:
something that has evaded the Tory Party until the cliff edge approaches and then suddenly the other parties should apply their brakes or they will be responsible for the debacle? Behave - tell you what hows about a Govt of National Unity excluding the Tories as thus far they have shown themselves unable to tackle the problem they created and should now take a back seat?
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Labour will not countenance a government of national unity
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
I take issue with this...i do not see how the EU are weaponising this. Brexit contravenes the GFA, an historic agreement negotiated and agreed by the UK with Ireland. Brexit is not being dictated by the threat of terrorism, Brexit is ignoring (trying to ignore) the terms of the GFA. You want to proceed with Brexit without considering or working with the GFA.
It proceeded Brexit, was agreed and ratified by the UK....it cant be set aside.

I just dont see how the EU and particular Varadkar as you keep mentioning, are weaponising and threatening the return of terrorism.
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I don't think they are.
They're pointing out that tearing up international treaties needs careful thought.
 
The BBC are running a no deal info day and some interesting stuff coming out. In NI they are relocating some business to the other side of the border to ensure they can cater/run their ‘all Ireland’ business without issue. In effect Brexit is happening without it happening. Similar to the drift to Europe for financial services.

 
BobKowalski said:
The BBC are running a no deal info day and some interesting stuff coming out. In NI they are relocating some business to the other side of the border to ensure they can cater/run their ‘all Ireland’ business without issue. In effect Brexit is happening without it happening. Similar to the drift to Europe for financial services.

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Fane source a lot of ingredients from the Midlands and Midwest, you can't really expect them to try to run a working agri wholesale business running through 1000 border and customs checks a day. Shame for their workers that live in Armagh and Derry though as they'll be the ones most affected.
 
BobKowalski said:
The BBC are running a no deal info day and some interesting stuff coming out. In NI they are relocating some business to the other side of the border to ensure they can cater/run their ‘all Ireland’ business without issue. In effect Brexit is happening without it happening. Similar to the drift to Europe for financial services.

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At least chemotherapy and radioactive isotopes won't be affected. Wee, I say won't be affected, Norman Lamont assured us, last night, that if they were the disruption would be minimal and it probably wouldn't lasy 'too long'. He has also been reassured of this by the Sec of State for health... The one who said "no deal is not an option for ANY prime minister". How they are changed by naked ambition. As with many members of the Government, there are one group of people who are allowed to change their minds.............
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Ive yet to see any Leaver , brexit minister, Tory ERG MP... list a positive other than the 'ethereal Sunny Uplands'
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Behave there have been thread after thread with debates on both sides . Arguments during the referendum and after where both sides debated the pros and cons of leaving on tv radio and bluemoon.

You just choose not to listen to the other side of the argument

Yet to see any leaver....

What bollox
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Behave there have been thread after thread with debates on both sides . Arguments during the referendum and after where both sides debated the pros and cons of leaving on tv radio and bluemoon.

You just choose not to listen to the other side of the argument

Yet to see any leaver....

What bollox
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Give us just one example of why we’ll be better off out then?
 
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