Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Metal Biker]

I believe this to be untrue millions of people may be on the minimum wage but to say they are stuck on it is not correct

Then you should speak to people who are then because for most of us that is exactly the case.

There are few opportunities out there that pays more than minimum wage, so most of the time we're moving from one minimum wage paying job to another. There may be a few who become entrepreneurs or manage to gain a position at a respectable company, but from my experience, especially amongst us under 35's, the job market is geared towards retail and is serviced by people of a working class background.

I've seen the same miserable people completely fed up with their lot that they leave and I later hear they have taken up a different job position but are still being paid minumum wage. It's great that you don't see that as being believable; in my case and others like us it's very much the reality of the situation. Labour introduced the minimum wage to prevent workers being exploited yet a lot of us found our wages dropped to the ' new minimum wage' and we had a choice; accept it or leave to find another job, but guess what, all other retailers and service jobs ended up doing the same. We've lost our bank holidays thanks to Labour; it's now mandatory to work them. Last year my company introduced Christmas Day openings even though we, the staff objected (we're not even allowed a union, imagine that!)

But I consider myself lucky because in April my wage will now be £7.50 an hour.

 

[mcfc1632]

It will be interesting to see how much time is devoted to Irish issues on April 29th. Clearly the EU leaders are not going to turn up on 29th and start the process of drawing up guidelines. They would still be there at Christmas if they did. Much more likely is that EU bureaucrats will present them with a draft document for their approval. Whether Kenny will have much input into the preparation of that document is the key question.

Actually, I think that he/Ireland will have little influence over the EU Bureaucrats approach and that in itself will be interesting. The EU Leaders are not going to want to craft any deal in the way that Ireland want and their level of influence in the next 2 years is likely to be very limited. But this is also why we need to have contingency plans for and the political strength of will to fallback to a walk away option.

Ireland could be putting a spanner in the works if it looks like the EU offer is going to be very negative and cause lots of delays. Equally, if they see that the UK is prepared for and prepared to walk away then they are really fucked - absolute rock and a hard place.

Good job those wrecker amendments were not successful - there was some real naivety about that around the UK and on this thread.

There are some senior figures over there even questioning if Ireland can stay in the EU after a UK withdrawal.

They joined the EEC at the same time as the UK and had 40+ years of major investment as well as the massive benefit of increased exports to the UK as the commonwealth countries lost out.

It is only in the last few years that they have gone from net receiver to net contributor and their bill is only going to rise as the EU tries to deal with the loss of their milch cow.

They will potentially have to deal with all this at the same time as their export revenues are placed at major risk as outlined in that article.

As I have said - the blow will fall hardest and soonest in Ireland - but also that might be the source of the initial fracturing of the supposed 'EU Unity'.

 

[blueinsa]

I believe this to be untrue millions of people may be on the minimum wage but to say they are stuck on it is not correct

So what job do they go to?

Genuine question mate.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

why not change jobs ?? you are allowed to, nobody is STUCK

Typical Tory wanker mantra.

Anyone on a low wage us there because they are feckless, lazy or unambitious.

Try the real world for once.

 

[TonyM]

If the EU shaft Ireland then it only goes to show that the UK are better off leaving the EU.

 

[TCIB]

The issue with jobs is AI, it is advancing so fast. Just 2 years ago process driven stuff like data entry was just about the limit of accounting software. Now with 1 person they have prototype software that learns as it goes and in tests basically made accountants redundant, even on strategic planning and the more complex stuff. This tech is already here, the robots are here, you seen an amazon warehouse recently?

Accountants are at a 95% risk of becoming obsolete with only telemarketing at 99% risk being higher.

This is new, jobs are created and made but AI is different, it creates the jobs and fills them, refines them, restructures them, How it all works is both scary and brilliant at the same time. The jobs at risk are nearly all middle class type jobs to.

Fortunately chemical engineers are at sod all risk so i'm alright jack, fuck the lot of ya's :-D

 

[hilts]

So what job do they go to?

Genuine question mate.

I am not of the opinion like some that the low paid or the unemployed in entirety are shirkers, it is a strange stance for anyone to take and it is usually delusion by those with a bit of money in their pocket. However in life two things count the most luck and most notably motivation. In the current climate any one individual apart from a few exceptions with either of these two traits needn't be on the minimum wage.

I accept that if everybody suddenly went balls out to improve their wages then there wouldn't be enough of these jobs for everybody. But the simple fact is they won't and they never have. I have personally been in work since the 80s and have never struggled to find a job and I'm about as lazy as lazy can be. From experience I know plenty are happy to coast which in itself is fine but these people to which I am one will always be in any statistic proclaiming how bad our lot is.

If I make 66 I will no doubt still be working and I can guarantee that someone will say isn't it a shame these old blokes still have to do 40 hours a week to get by. I could agree with them and blame someone else but it won't be true. It's funny out of all the people I went to school with,drink with,worked with and lived near none of them have been unemployed or on low wages for any length of time. Lads from working class backgrounds and many of them not particularly bright.

 

[hilts]

Typical Tory wanker mantra.

Anyone on a low wage us there because they are feckless, lazy or unambitious.

Try the real world for once.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle

 

[blueonblue]

Typical Tory wanker mantra.

Anyone on a low wage us there because they are feckless, lazy or unambitious.

Try the real world for once.

Or maybe your the one needs to look at the real world ?
There are a lot of reasons to be on low wages including the reasons you list, but the truth is what you have to sell (Skills) is not worth much, nor is it going to get better as the age of automation rolls ever nearer and cheap labour is allowed to flood the job market.

You want to blame the Tory's for what ?,

Because Parents let their kids schoolwork slide ?
The labour party made the education system academic targeted rather than teach things needed in a real world to those kids not academic ?, there was a time when schools taught practical skills like woodwork, metal work, bricklaying, even the basics of gardening can be an earner if your prepared to get off your arse.

 

[hilts]

Or maybe your the one needs to look at the real world ?
There are a lot of reasons to be on low wages including the reasons you list, but the truth is what you have to sell (Skills) is not worth much, nor is it going to get better as the age of automation rolls ever nearer and cheap labour is allowed to flood the job market.

You want to blame the Tory's for what ?,

Because Parents let their kids schoolwork slide ?
The labour party made the education system academic targeted rather than teach things needed in a real world to those kids not academic ?, there was a time when schools taught practical skills like woodwork, metal work, bricklaying, even the basics of gardening can be an earner if your prepared to get off your arse.

In every job I have done pretty much everybody I have worked with is a coaster. It's not a bad thing really I'm quite happy with my lot but I got the luck part as well as the wife is motivated. But I have had endless talks with people I work with and we all tell each other how we will do this that and the other to get a better paid job. Years later we are still having the same conversation. We're not lazy in that we don't work just not motivated enough to find anything better. It isn't important enough to us. For those who genuinely want to improve their lot it is out there for you because while there are people like me about and there is fucking loads of us it gives you that opportunity.

If there is no money in the service industry get out of the service industry. It will take effort and time bit it is doable. Don't let negative comments about the job market derail you or stop you trying.