Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Blue Whale]

Because they want it to be a disaster , they want the uk to go into economic meltdown, the eu to flourish and prosper and then they can post on blue moon "see I told you so".

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

 

[blueinsa]

The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true.

Christ I've heard it all now lol

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

For Gibraltar see Falklands.

Thats not bravado, its just reality.

Stunts like this from the EU just further rubber stamps my leave vote.

Precisely. Friends dont behave like this.

 

[urban genie]

This Gibraltar bollocks is no different than the situation with Ireland and NI, our news is making what is an obvious result of leaving the EU into a story, it wasn't specialy mentioned, it is one of the negotiating points as it always was going to be, but has been highlighted, we leave and any british land borders will be affected.
Both sides will give it the "we've the stronger position" billy big bollocks guff, until it's fully ironed out there is gonna be a lot of scare mongering from some remainers and sneering triumphalism from some exiters.

Mays stance is next to useless, we have no more advantahe than the EU, yes we are the 5th largest economy but if we get no deal we're in a weak position, our security imput is about 3% and we need their intel as much as they need ours, militaraly we are 5th strongest in the world, but that's because we are economically strong not because of substantial numbers and equipment, also as a comitted NATO member we are oblidged to help our partners, Trafe deals outside the eu we cannot negotiate till the exit is sealed under rules we signed up for. We and the EU are pretty much eqyally matched in negotiations as they need our services, financial insratutions, cross border co operation etc.

It's happening whether people like it or not, just get on with it. personally sick of hearing about it, may, davies and johnson, the EU starmer, fallen, bbc, sky ect can all fuck off for 2 years, then come back and tell me the outcome.

 

[Peggy's a blue]

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

Nonsense, people want to leave the United States of Europe because of loss of control over U.K. Issues, laws/dictats/regulations issued by faceless unelected bureaucrats without discussion/scrutiny it's absolutely ridiculous how many EC directives have been issued, I know I was on the wrong side of them.
No this is not about polish plumbers or Europeans serving the masses their coffee, to say otherwise is very insulting. But hey that's what the liberal elite do best isn't it!

 

[Helmet Cole]

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

What a load of bollocks.

 

[smudgedj]

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

Checks date. Ah! I see.

 

[Vic]

Why do remainers big up everything on behalf of the EU and trash anything to do with the UK?

Perhaps the same reason some Brexiters want the EU to fail. Citizens of the world versus little Englanders.

It's not about trashing the UK. It is about not wanting to lose what has been achieved in the EU (including making the Gibraltar issue largely irrelevant) but probably no point rehearsing it all here. If you've never seen yourself as an internationalist you probably wouldn't understand.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

Quite the opposite. It seems brexiters are hell bent on leaving no matter what the cost. As it was simply summed up on the day article 50 was triggered. "The UK want to leave the EU because people believe the UK puts in more money into the EU than it takes out but this is not factually true. The EU invests more into the UK than it gives to the EU. The UK wants to leave the EU because people believe the Polish Plumber takes out more from the UK than he puts in but this is not true. He pays more in taxes than he takes out in public services so the UK economically benefits from his being in the UK."

Stop making shit up. The uk net contribution to the eu is about 9billion. That's after what we get back. I know predictions are often wrong but to now start rewriting history as well. Ffs. Suggest you use google.

 

[hgblue]

Perhaps the same reason some Brexiters want the EU to fail. Citizens of the world versus little Englanders.

It's not trashing the UK. It's not wanting to lose what has been achieved in the EU (including making the Gibraltar issue largely irrelevant) but probably no point rehearsing it all here. If you've never seen yourself as an internationalist you probably wouldn't understand.

An internationalist certainly wouldn't be in favour of a protectionist customs union that slaps huge tariffs on foreign imports.

 

[blueinsa]

Checks date. Ah! I see.

You're being way too kind imo.

He genuinely believes that crap.

 

[smudgedj]

Perhaps the same reason some Brexiters want the EU to fail. Citizens of the world versus little Englanders.

It's not about trashing the UK. It is about not wanting to lose what has been achieved in the EU (including making the Gibraltar issue largely irrelevant) but probably no point rehearsing it all here. If you've never seen yourself as an internationalist you probably wouldn't understand.

Eh? We want to leave the EU, to negotiate trade deals with the new American Administration, all of the Commonwealth, the Far East and South America and we are the little Englanders. What an odd world you live in.

 

[smudgedj]

You're being way too kind imo.

He genuinely believes that crap.

Ah ok, perhaps he was granted a weekend pass. lol

 

[bluethrunthru]

But - As I said it is negotiating positioning - a bit like Tusk making sounds about Gibraltar. It will in no way lead to the scenario you posted.

But the EU should be grateful for and give recognition to the value of that support - like European countries should meet their NATO commitments.

Why do remainers big up everything on behalf of the EU and trash anything to do with the UK?

my retort would be why do leavers think that the sun shines out of our collective arses and the UK is so needed by the other 27 members that they will just roll over and give the UK what it craves unconditionally?

 

[Vic]

Eh? We want to leave the EU, to negotiate trade deals with the new American Administration, all of the Commonwealth, the Far East and South America and we are the little Englanders. What an odd world you live in.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/themarketmogul.com/brexit-mean-developing-world/amp/

"the EU are currently negotiating new deals with a large proportion of the developing world. If Brexit were to occur, therefore, it is highly possible that the UK will not be involved in these new trade deals. Clearly, a non-EU incorporated UK would seek to write their deals with these developing nations, particularly those that take part in a large amount of trade with the UK, but this would undoubtedly take time. It is unlikely that the developing world would seek to impose trade barriers but the uncertainty created could prevent investment, and have indirect effects harming developing nations."

€960bn over six years in development aid from the EU. Do you really think the Daily Mail will be rooting for the UK to pay a similar share when we're out? - they already resent the 0.7% of GDP on aid. Will you be rooting for it? (Not of course that it was a promise to spend our EU contributions on the NHS, but I really don't think many who voted leave will campaign for what we "save" to go on overseas aid. There was certainly no bus.)

 

[The perfect fumble]

It needs, IMO, to be either:

a) The EU fold and give us the TA we seek - even though it will be 'dressed up' as less than that as the EU need to keep a face (but what do we care), or

b) Hard Brexit - we will recover soon enough - they will be holed below the water line

There's no point in debating the issues with you, there's not the slightest possibility the EU will give us what we want because what we want is ungiveable.

The EU will go on much as before, they'll take a hit but nothing compared to the hit we're going to take, we'll be lucky to hold the UK together.

 

[Len Rum]

No deal will be fine.

"No deal will be fine"?
Apart from Boris Johnson and some alt right wing loons in the Tory party it's generally accepted this will be a lose lose situation for both sides.
As I know you are aware no deal means extra paperwork,customs delays, (and associated costs), failure of goods and services to comply with necessary standards and regulations ( divergence post Brexit) and the absence of a supra national court to rule on disputes ( we won't accept the ECJ). Just in time complex supply chain businesses will be badly affected.
What bit of that won't impact on day one of post Brexit on UK and EU trade?
Are you suggesting that we will immediately replace that lost business with non EU trade?
Please, your expert assurances would be greatly welcome.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I don't think there's much chance of a Norway solution. May just isn't doing the groundwork for it, free movement of labour is too big a hurdle.

My money would be on a hard brexit, but delayed. Some sort of interim arrangement which would mean that we move to WTO terms circa 2025. I've never believed that german car manufacturers would guarantee us a free trade deal, but they'll be fairly influential in making sure that it doesn't descend into chaos in two years time. An interim arrangement might also provide a mechanism for fudging the brexit divorce bill.

Yep, we'll be like the toad squatting in the warming water, we'll boil in the end, it'll just take a little longer.

 

[The perfect fumble]

"No deal will be fine"?
Apart from Boris Johnson and some alt right wing loons in the Tory party it's generally accepted this will be a lose lose situation for both sides.
As I know you are aware no deal means extra paperwork,customs delays, (and associated costs), failure of goods and services to comply with necessary standards and regulations ( divergence post Brexit) and the absence of a supra national court to rule on disputes ( we won't accept the ECJ). Just in time complex supply chain businesses will be badly affected.
What bit of that won't impact on day one of post Brexit on UK and EU trade?
Are you suggesting that we will immediately replace that lost business with non EU trade?
Please, your expert assurances would be greatly welcome.

You're wasting your time mate, facts are for wimps, remoaners and traitors. Stupidity is the new patriotism.

 

[Len Rum]

It needs, IMO, to be either:

a) The EU fold and give us the TA we seek - even though it will be 'dressed up' as less than that as the EU need to keep a face (but what do we care), or

b) Hard Brexit - we will recover soon enough - they will be holed below the water line

It needs IMO, to be either:

a) The UK fold and give the EU the TA they seek - even though it will be 'dressed up' as less than that as the UK need to keep face ( but what do the EU care), or

b) Hard Brexit - they will recover soon enough - we will be holed below the water line.