Battle Of Orgreave

bluwes said:
Sorry, been reading this thread for a while but this is shit, I was there. Yes the Met where bastards, but mainly cos they nicked your stuff. Had loads of good natured banter at different pits with the miners. Scargill wanted to bring down a politically elected government, nothing to do with the pit closures
Remember that working miners were killed during this strike.

GMP were known as the Red badges and when we turned up, then don't mess with them. The place was full of shit bags who were not miners. Just there for a ruck, anarchists, what ever. My mate was on a horse, he got dragged off and had the shit kicked out of him. They even tried to stab his horse.
Yeh the cops were cunts
Click to expand...

I am not saying all coppers were bad, I am not even saying all miners were saints.
The strike nationwide was marred with violence by both sides and yes at some pickets miners and flying pickets also acted like twats, stoning and bricking people, attacking scabs and other workers, and yes the death of David Wilke in Wales was disgraceful.
Scargil was also a **** at times whose single minded mission to bring down thatcher by any means necessary was not helpful to those striking.
As I said the nature reported early doors was said to be good and many stories from many of the nationwide picket lines tell of miners and coppers having no issues as a strike should be.
The question about Orgreave though is was it a state sponsored attemp to use the police as their own tool? The comment about police being cunts was not a general opinion of all police btw I actually don't buy into the acab view of a lot of people when it comes to the 80's, but most of the stories do single out the MET as being knobs which is why I mentioned them.
 
urban genie said:
I am not saying all coppers were bad, I am not even saying all miners were saints.
The strike nationwide was marred with violence by both sides and yes at some pickets miners and flying pickets also acted like twats, stoning and bricking people, attacking scabs and other workers, and yes the death of David Wilke in Wales was disgraceful.
Scargil was also a **** at times whose single minded mission to bring down thatcher by any means necessary was not helpful to those striking.
As I said the nature reported early doors was said to be good and many stories from many of the nationwide picket lines tell of miners and coppers having no issues as a strike should be.
The question about Orgreave though is was it a state sponsored attemp to use the police as their own tool? The comment about police being cunts was not a general opinion of all police btw I actually don't buy into the acab view of a lot of people when it comes to the 80's, but most of the stories do single out the MET as being knobs which is why I mentioned them.
Click to expand...
If you accept the main aim and purpose of the strike, from the man who called and organised it, was to bring down the elected government of the day, why is it reprehensible for the government to use the police force as a tool to prevent that happening?

Would you have preferred that they'd have deployed the army?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
If you accept the main aim and purpose of the strike, from the man who called and organised it, was to bring down the elected government of the day, why is it reprehensible for the government to use the police force as a tool to prevent that happening?

Would you have preferred that they'd have deployed the army?
Click to expand...

no as the main aim of the strikes, as they were many were legitmate concerns over the governments attemp to close pits, and were most strikers only concern, bring able to work and earn a living, unlike now striking was still an effective means to protest and they would have happened if someone else was leading the NUM more than likely.
Scargil on the other hand had other motives on top of that, and played into maggies hands, if he had balloted the members and won (which is likely) then there was a possibilty of a general strike happening as other unions were still willing to back the miners and the government being paralised.

Also the army were considered that was established the other year.
 
urban genie said:
no as the main aim of the strikes, as they were many were legitmate concerns over the governments attemp to close pits, and were most strikers only concern, bring able to work and earn a living, unlike now striking was still an effective means to protest and they would have happened if someone else was leading the NUM more than likely.
Scargil on the other hand had other motives on top of that, and played into maggies hands, if he had balloted the members and won (which is likely) then there was a possibilty of a general strike happening as other unions were still willing to back the miners and the government being paralised.

Also the army were considered that was established the other year.
Click to expand...
You're focussing on the aims of the strikers, which were legitimate and heartfelt, but ultimately subordinate to the main event. The only meaningful way of stopping Scargill succeeding in his aim was to prevent his pawns from operating effectively in large numbers. Much as I dislike Thatcher, if I'd have been PM at the time, I'd have done exactly the same. You can't have a union, or an industry, bringing down the government of the day, which was Scargill's primary aim, imo.

The absence of a ballot, as well as being misguided and arrogant, revealed his true intentions - as well as appalling lack of judgement.
 
urban genie said:
I am not saying all coppers were bad, I am not even saying all miners were saints.
The strike nationwide was marred with violence by both sides and yes at some pickets miners and flying pickets also acted like twats, stoning and bricking people, attacking scabs and other workers, and yes the death of David Wilke in Wales was disgraceful.
Scargil was also a **** at times whose single minded mission to bring down thatcher by any means necessary was not helpful to those striking.
As I said the nature reported early doors was said to be good and many stories from many of the nationwide picket lines tell of miners and coppers having no issues as a strike should be.
The question about Orgreave though is was it a state sponsored attemp to use the police as their own tool? The comment about police being cunts was not a general opinion of all police btw I actually don't buy into the acab view of a lot of people when it comes to the 80's, but most of the stories do single out the MET as being knobs which is why I mentioned them.
Click to expand...

I dont think there's any doubt that the heads of every public body and nationalised industry affected by the strike were told in no uncertain terms that they were expected to do everything in their power to help defeat the strike. Their jobs and career prospects depended on co-operating in that aim. They were also expected to produce plans and strategies on how they would help achieve that aim. That would obviously include the most senior police officers.

Whether the government went further in actually sanctioning specific tactics eg "beat the shit out of the miners at Orgreave", is a bit different. I think that was more a case of nods and winks. The government made it very clear that the police had their total support. They didnt have to do more than that.
 
bluwes said:
Sorry, been reading this thread for a while but this is shit, I was there. Yes the Met where bastards, but mainly cos they nicked your stuff. Had loads of good natured banter at different pits with the miners. Scargill wanted to bring down a politically elected government, nothing to do with the pit closures
Remember that working miners were killed during this strike.

GMP were known as the Red badges and when we turned up, then don't mess with them. The place was full of shit bags who were not miners. Just there for a ruck, anarchists, what ever. My mate was on a horse, he got dragged off and had the shit kicked out of him. They even tried to stab his horse.
Yeh the cops were cunts
Click to expand...

Read all that back, please explain ?

Because some of that is utter bollocks.
 
bluemoonmatt said:
The saddest thing I can think of is right wing zombies spouting the exact drivel they read in their bibles be that the old or new Testament, aka the mail / express.

Families were starving. FAMILIES, not just strikers, it makes me sick what as a nation we have allowed ourselves to become, the very embodiment of that evil woman's I'm alright jack ethos. Fwiw I'll extract my own teeth before voting for the hypocitical anti Semite Corbyn but I'll never EVER vote a party who to prove who was boss dumped the north of our country on its arse and into near terminal decline, and in doing so destroyed our nations proud history at the forefront of manufacture and production, directly and decisively causing the very financial problems that cripple the nation today.

The industry would be dead now anyway, but a slow death would have at least allowed the young to aim for other careers and those too long in the tooth to finish theirs. Thatcher and her heavily paid henchmen from the south were more interested in quick death, and they got what they wanted, suicide, depression and villages and towns from Newcastle to Newport via Yorkshire of course fucked for as long as memory allows. Shame on any self respecting human being who ever views the strike as a glorious victory for government.
Click to expand...

One of the best posts I have read on this site.

That period in time is still having an impact on this country now.

Millions have been left to simply exist without any real hope.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.