Ched Evans - serious injury

[Prestwich_Blue]

I feel the same as you Matty and your last paragraph is the important point I think. There was a medical witness for the defence who testified that it was unlikely that she'd have no memory of events based on what she said she'd drunk. She said that she didn't remember anything but the judge seems to have directed the jury that her obvious drunken state meant she was incapable of understanding what was happening and therefore consenting. Yet the jury found that there was reasonable doubt in McDonald's case, who said she'd consented yet none in Evans' case, even though both defendants said she did consent.

So they agreed that McDonald honestly believed she had consented but that Evans was lying when he claimed he believed she had consented to him having sex with her. So there's an inconsistency in my mind to start with, with the judge seemingly directing that she was too drunk to consent yet the jury clearly believing otherwise. I'd like to see a transcript of that summing up.

 

[BlueBearBoots]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

 

[DelToro]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

Yes - why is that a problem?

Legal sex has to be consensual - if you do not/cannnot give consent it is not legal.

To murder someone requires a level of conscious activity regardless of the level of alcohol/drugs intake.

 

[dronefromsector7g]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

A troubling comparison in my eyes that one. If someone is so drunk they aren't able to consent then they get left alone, full stop.

 

[foxy]

This is getting pretty boring now. Of course people have the right to petition and protest but in the same democratic world people have been served justice and should be allowed to carry on with their lives. The pitchfork brigrade are putting Britain back in to the Middle Ages (or the middle east) with suggestions that convicts who've served their time can't start a new life or be reformed characters.

That woman Charlie West resigned from being patron of Sheffield United felt the need to go on TV to announce it, why? It was nothing more than her self promoting herself and getting some limelight. Ched still has an appeal and I hope she's made to eat humble pie if he wins it. If not then fair enough, but a bit dramatic to go on tv to announce it..

 

[aguero93:20]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

You wouldn't be convicted of first degree afaik unless the prosecution were able to prove you'd planned the deed before getting drunk, probably just manslaughter/culpable homicide.

 

[Shokhorror]

The gray area for me here is that he did not do the full sentence. he only did 2.5years of the full 5.

If he had done the full time, I would agree that he had done his time and should be able to do whatever he likes but with him only doing half of it, could you argue that he has not been fully punished?

maybe he should be banned for a further 2.5years and then be able to play.

as for the petition is not worth the paper its written on, its so easy for someone to just right there name down without looking through all the facts. Everyone wants to look like they are doing the right thing.

 

[tidyman]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

You wouldn't be convicted of first degree afaik unless the prosecution were able to prove you'd planned the deed before getting drunk, probably just manslaughter/culpable homicide.

Which countries laws are you talking about?

 

[aguero93:20]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

You wouldn't be convicted of first degree afaik unless the prosecution were able to prove you'd planned the deed before getting drunk, probably just manslaughter/culpable homicide.

Which countries laws are you talking about?

Most western countries, you have to prove that somebody was in a reasonable state of mind and planned the act to get a prosecution for first degree murder, hence we have second degree murder, manslaughter and not guilty by reasons of insanity as possible verdicts. Plenty of people have been prosecuted successfully for first degree murder for an act committed when drunk, but other factors have been brought into consideration when reaching the verdict, such as a pre-existing vendetta (although this isn't necessarily enough on it's own), a particularly savage/vicious murder (or a killing spree) or previous violent crimes. Although I believe in some countries killing someone while driving over the limit is first degree murder as driving the car while pissed takes the place of intent. However, if you got blind drunk, got into a fight while out and killed someone while in the fight, you'd probably be charged with manslaughter and I believe that is the scenario BBB was thinking of.

 

[Matty]

The gray area for me here is that he did not do the full sentence. he only did 2.5years of the full 5.

If he had done the full time, I would agree that he had done his time and should be able to do whatever he likes but with him only doing half of it, could you argue that he has not been fully punished?

maybe he should be banned for a further 2.5years and then be able to play.

as for the petition is not worth the paper its written on, its so easy for someone to just right there name down without looking through all the facts. Everyone wants to look like they are doing the right thing.

Virtually every prisoner gets out early. It's almost unheard of for someone to be sentenced to 5 years and actually serve 5 years. Evans is no different to everyone else in this regard, so should every prisoner be banned from earning a living until the term of their original sentence has been reached? That might just put a strain on an already creaking benefits system.

 

[mcfcphil]

I would be interested to know, if not a footballer, what job people think would be fit for a convicted rapist?
are we saying he should be stacking shelves? if so that's incredibly disrespectful to the millions of honest, hardworking people who stack shelves for a living. is stacking shelves seen as a punishment?
who has the right to say what job has more "worth" than another?
This is a classic example of people calling into question the justice system because one specific case doesn't meet their moral expectations.
the law is there for everyone and if that means ched evans is able to return to work as a footballer then so be it.
if we start changing the law because of exceptional cases like this then the impact it would have on the wider rehabilitation system and other offenders would be incredibly detrimental in my opinion.

 

[PinkFinal]

Sheff United shouldn't employ him, their fans have been singing his name as if he's a hero, not good.

Should he be allowed to play again? Yes.

I don't know if his protestations of innocence are just a sly propaganda campaign or if he is actually innocent or if he is too thick to understand that no consent means rape.

 

[Dubai Blue]

just had a thought on this - can you be convicted of murder if you are blind drunk and dont remember doing it? ~I assume the answer is yes. So she was too drunk to consent to sex and didnt remember any of it and this was reason enough to convict him? ~What Im saying is in the eyes of the law you can be too drunk to consent to sex but not too drunk to commit murder?

You're comparing apples and oranges. In one case, the perpetrator is blind drunk, and in the other it's the victim. There isn't any just comparison to be made there.

 

[urmston]

The deputy prime minister has opined on the Ched Evans affair.

Funny, I don't remember him having anything to say about the return to league football of drunken driver and child killer Luke McCormick, who killed two brothers aged 10 and 8 when he crashed his car into theirs.

And if jail sentences are compared McCormick's crime was more serious than Evans'.

 

[pace89]

The deputy prime minister has opined on the Ched Evans affair.

Funny, I don't remember him having anything to say about the return to league football of drunken driver and child killer Luke McCormick, who killed two brothers aged 10 and 8 when he crashed his car into theirs.

And if jail sentences are compared McCormick's crime was more serious than Evans'.

Clegg’s constituency is Sheffield Hallam so he's going to be asked his opinion.

 

[mcmanus]

Just heard some woman on the headlines on talk sport mentioning about Evans and playing football saying something about protecting 'small children'.

WTF?

He had sex with a drunk adult, got sent down for rape, done his time and should now be allowed to carry on with his life.

 

[urmston]

The deputy prime minister has opined on the Ched Evans affair.

Funny, I don't remember him having anything to say about the return to league football of drunken driver and child killer Luke McCormick, who killed two brothers aged 10 and 8 when he crashed his car into theirs.

And if jail sentences are compared McCormick's crime was more serious than Evans'.

Clegg’s constituency is Sheffield Hallam so he's going to be asked his opinion.

Oh, I see.

But even so, it is very odd that there has been no national controversy at all really about child killer McCormick returning to league football after leaving prison.

He's even been appointed captain of his team.

It's almost as if drunkenly causing the deaths of two young brothers is not regarded as being as such a vile crime as Evans'.

I'm no apologist for Evans, but I'd be a lot happier seeing him playing football than I would be to know that McCormick had got his driving licence back.

And he has got it back!

 

[bobmcfc]

The deputy prime minister has opined on the Ched Evans affair.

Funny, I don't remember him having anything to say about the return to league football of drunken driver and child killer Luke McCormick, who killed two brothers aged 10 and 8 when he crashed his car into theirs.

And if jail sentences are compared McCormick's crime was more serious than Evans'.

Clegg’s constituency is Sheffield Hallam so he's going to be asked his opinion.

Back of shirt sponsors are saying they will end their agreement with Sheffield United if they re-employ Evans

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Just heard some woman on the headlines on talk sport mentioning about Evans and playing football saying something about protecting 'small children'.

WTF?

He had sex with a drunk adult, got sent down for rape, done his time and should now be allowed to carry on with his life.

I heard that as well (women and CHILDREN need protecting) I think its the sponsors saying it.

 

[mcmanus]

I would be interested to know, if not a footballer, what job people think would be fit for a convicted rapist?
are we saying he should be stacking shelves? if so that's incredibly disrespectful to the millions of honest, hardworking people who stack shelves for a living. is stacking shelves seen as a punishment?
who has the right to say what job has more "worth" than another?
This is a classic example of people calling into question the justice system because one specific case doesn't meet their moral expectations.
the law is there for everyone and if that means ched evans is able to return to work as a footballer then so be it.
if we start changing the law because of exceptional cases like this then the impact it would have on the wider rehabilitation system and other offenders would be incredibly detrimental in my opinion.

Great point, well put.

Not one person be it via internet, radio or newspaper saying he shouldn't be allowed to play football again has given one alternative to how Evans should earn a living. Not one.