City and the freemasons

petrusha said:
There's thread specifically devoted to City and freemasonry from back in 2009. It may be too old to feature in the searches on the forum now, because I tried to find it that way without success. However, I managed to Google it. The link is to page 5 of the seven-page thread, because that's where Gary James makes his first appearance: http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/city-and-the-masons.142687/page-5

As far as I know, the position hasn't changed significantly since Gary wrote the following in October 2009:

Proof doesn't exist and unfortunately Sidney Rose's article had errors, rumours and myths in it ... I covered it in "Manchester A Football History" (pages 358-359 & elsewhere) and my conclusion was: "the Masonic influence does seem far too strong to suggest the shirt's colour and branding is co-incidence" but at that point in the book I'm talking more about the use of the white Patee (often referred to as Maltese) cross that predates the use of blue.​

I'm sure if there's any update, Gary will provide it if he sees the thread and when he has time.
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Oh, don't get me started. Lots of former City people, including Joe Mercer, were Masons but there is absolutely no proof that sky blue and white were picked because of Masonic links. I've researched and researched this and lots of people come forward and say 'it's definitely because of the masons' but when I ask for proof it's never there. I've been in Masonic libraries, researched with Masonic experts and so on and while lots of people at City were masons, people who led football clubs were often the sort of people who were in a position to join the craft.

Right back in the 1880s there were strong Masonic links and I reckon the white cross pattee kit of 1884 was the influence of at least one senior figure in the local Masonic community but, as yet, I've still not found proof. At this moment I'm sat in an archive researching something to do with the 1860s-1880s community that established our club, but unfortunately too many people just repeat the myths with no new evidence. The Sidney Rose article in MQ was all hearsay with no facts about the kit. I know Sidney had been associated with City from the 1960s (maybe 1950s) but we still need to go back sixty to ninety years before that.

If anyone does have hard factual evidence from 1890s and earlier proving that the colours were chosen because of Masonic links (or anything else) I'd love to see it, but sadly despite decades of research no factual, hard evidence has come forward. I personally think the sky blue shirt evolved from our royal blue and white striped kit. I also think Josh Parlby picked it, but I don't know for definite. It's an opinion. Oh, for a long lost diary of Walter Chew to be found (and yes I am searching for that as well. One day, maybe?).
 
Gary James said:
Oh, don't get me started. Lots of former City people, including Joe Mercer, were Masons but there is absolutely no proof that sky blue and white were picked because of Masonic links. I've researched and researched this and lots of people come forward and say 'it's definitely because of the masons' but when I ask for proof it's never there. I've been in Masonic libraries, researched with Masonic experts and so on and while lots of people at City were masons, people who led football clubs were often the sort of people who were in a position to join the craft.

Right back in the 1880s there were strong Masonic links and I reckon the white cross pattee kit of 1884 was the influence of at least one senior figure in the local Masonic community but, as yet, I've still not found proof. At this moment I'm sat in an archive researching something to do with the 1860s-1880s community that established our club, but unfortunately too many people just repeat the myths with no new evidence. The Sidney Rose article in MQ was all hearsay with no facts about the kit. I know Sidney had been associated with City from the 1960s (maybe 1950s) but we still need to go back sixty to ninety years before that.

If anyone does have hard factual evidence from 1890s and earlier proving that the colours were chosen because of Masonic links (or anything else) I'd love to see it, but sadly despite decades of research no factual, hard evidence has come forward. I personally think the sky blue shirt evolved from our royal blue and white striped kit. I also think Josh Parlby picked it, but I don't know for definite. It's an opinion. Oh, for a long lost diary of Walter Chew to be found (and yes I am searching for that as well. One day, maybe?).
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Gary James said:
Oh, don't get me started. Lots of former City people, including Joe Mercer, were Masons but there is absolutely no proof that sky blue and white were picked because of Masonic links. I've researched and researched this and lots of people come forward and say 'it's definitely because of the masons' but when I ask for proof it's never there. I've been in Masonic libraries, researched with Masonic experts and so on and while lots of people at City were masons, people who led football clubs were often the sort of people who were in a position to join the craft.

Right back in the 1880s there were strong Masonic links and I reckon the white cross pattee kit of 1884 was the influence of at least one senior figure in the local Masonic community but, as yet, I've still not found proof. At this moment I'm sat in an archive researching something to do with the 1860s-1880s community that established our club, but unfortunately too many people just repeat the myths with no new evidence. The Sidney Rose article in MQ was all hearsay with no facts about the kit. I know Sidney had been associated with City from the 1960s (maybe 1950s) but we still need to go back sixty to ninety years before that.

If anyone does have hard factual evidence from 1890s and earlier proving that the colours were chosen because of Masonic links (or anything else) I'd love to see it, but sadly despite decades of research no factual, hard evidence has come forward. I personally think the sky blue shirt evolved from our royal blue and white striped kit. I also think Josh Parlby picked it, but I don't know for definite. It's an opinion. Oh, for a long lost diary of Walter Chew to be found (and yes I am searching for that as well. One day, maybe?).
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Thanks Gary and good luck with your research.

I wonder if you could clear something else up for me as i believe you had some input into the new badge design. Is there any reason other than esthetics that fc or football club was not incorporated into the new badge design.
 
I would have thought this was a bad thing if we had any connection to them, are they not supposed to be/have been an evil cult with dodgy goings on?
 
Metalartin said:
I would have thought this was a bad thing if we had any connection to them, are they not supposed to be/have been an evil cult with dodgy goings on?
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My cousin's hubby is a mason, he's always pestering me to join but I'm not interested, he talks about "the serious stuff in the chapel...", the mind boggles! Mind you he's in the Prison Service and like the cops, they're riddled with masons.
 
Fair enough guys I've only heard about them from word of mouth and to be fair most gossipers are bullshitters I guess it's the whole secrecy thing that drives the rumors and distrust people have.
 
Metalartin said:
Fair enough guys I've only heard about them from word of mouth and to be fair most gossipers are bullshitters I guess it's the whole secrecy thing that drives the rumors and distrust people have.
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The secrecy thing is taken completely out of proportion. There are a few key things (words and signs) that you can use to prove you're one. Those, plus some other details of the ceremonies, are the secret bits.

At the end of the day, for most it's a night out and a good scoff once a month.
 
Academica said:
Thanks Gary and good luck with your research.

I wonder if you could clear something else up for me as i believe you had some input into the new badge design. Is there any reason other than esthetics that fc or football club was not incorporated into the new badge design.
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There's no deliberate plot or anything. It wasn't like MUFC taking football club off their badge. City - The FC looked clumsy on versions they showed me they'd tried and football club caused the whole name to go smaller and lose its impact. Fans said they wanted the 2 key words Manchester and City to be prominent and that's what they've done. City are still very much Manchester City Football Club as the tins they sent out with the season cards proved. Funnily enough the words Football Club have never appeared on a City badge and even Manchester City wasn't on the eagle badge. Cheers
 
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