Brucie Bonus
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2008
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Mr Ed (The Stables) said:
You couldn't be more wrong about the position of the Catholic Church. David Yallop is simply wrong, factually. He is either a very sloppy researcher, or he writes with a reckless disregard for the truth (like most people that write about the Catholic Church, I mean their audience knows nothing either, except what has been handed down from Elizabethan protestant pamphleteers, incorprated into school books, shows up in pop culture, and is accepted as fact).
I couldn't care less what masons claim about blue, Rabelais has a good laugh at this kind of thing, but Yallop probably hasn't read G & P, it seems he hasn't read much. Tell me which Popes where Masons. Give me the date the "fall out" happened. Tell me by whose authority the prohibition was revoked (would that be Paul VI who exiled Fat Sam to Iran because he was found to be a Mason, or JPII who confirmed the prohibition in 1983, or Cardinal Ratzinger [who has also confimed it recently (as Pope)] the Masons admit is a fierce enemy? Fact is mate, from Clement V (1312, supression of the Templars, old style nutters) to Clement XII (1738, In Eminenti, applied to new style nutters) to this very day, no Catholic may be a Mason and it has fuck all to do with Jews, Muslims or anyone else.
It's true that Cardinal Mariano Rampolla was a member of the OTO, he got busted. It's true that Cardinal Sodano was supposed to be a member of P2, he became strangely irrelevant. It's true that a number of Cardinals and Bishops around 1789, 1848, 1870, 1914, 1939, and around Vatican II were supposed to be involved with the masonic sects in some way, but that's not a Pope, is it?, and they were dealt with. No one ever talks about the position of protestant churches, or european secular and non-Catholic influenced governments. No one ever talks about old and sometimes still enforced prohibitions against masonic sects by ordinary governments and non-Catholics. No one in England seems to worry anymore about the influence of masons in the police, courts of law, business, education, military....they used to, right up until the 1980s. What happened?
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The Code of Canon Law, 1917 edition, in Canon 2335, declared: “Persons joining associations of the Masonic sect or any others of the same kind which plot against the Church and legitimate civil authorities contract ipso facto excommunication simply reserved to the Apostolic See.â€
In other words, no Bishop or priest has the authoirty to supend or abrogate the penalty.
After Vatican II, while a revision to the Code of Canon Law was underway, Cardinal Francis Seper, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on July 18, 1974, wrote a letter to the presidents of all the episcopal conferences, saying, [1] the Holy See has repeatedly sought information from the bishops about contemporary Masonic activities directed against the Church; [2] there will be no new law on this matter, pending the revision of the Canon Law including Canon 2335; [3] all penal canons must be interpreted strictly, and [4] the express prohibition against Masonic membership by clerics, religious and members of secular institutes remained in force.
Many "well-intentioned" priests interpreted this letter, which was not published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the Holy See’s journal of record, as allowing lay Catholics to become Masons if the local bishop found that the lodge in question was not actively plotting against the Catholic Church or the civil authorities.
Since Canon 2335 was in force at that time, and remained in force until 1983, these priests should have realized that even Cardinal Seper had no authority to allow lay Catholics to become Masons.
Cardinal Seper on February 17, 1981 tried to end the confusion with a formal declaration: [1] his original letter did not in any way change the force of the existing Canon 2335, [2] the stated canonical penalties are in no way abrogated, and [3] he was but recalling the general principles of interpretation to be applied by the local bishop for resolving cases of individual persons, which is not to say that any episcopal conference now has the competence to publicly pass judgment of a general character on the nature of Masonic associations in such a way as to derogate from the previously stated norms. This declaration helped, but many priests continued to rely on their erroneous interpretation of the 1974 letter.
When the new Code came out in 1983, Canon 1374 stated: “A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.â€
The new Code firmly reinforced the Church’s constant teaching on Freemasonry. However, Canon 1374 required further explanation. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, then the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now Pope Benedict XVI, issued his Declaration on Masonic Associations to make Catholic teaching on Freemasonry crystal clear. Its key paragraph states:
Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion [they are actually excommunicated latae sentiae, remember, which means, no action need be taken by the Church, the penalty is incurred automatically)
In this Cardinal Ratzinger followed consistently the teaching of Pope Leo XIII: Cardinal Ratzinger did not say “Masonic lodges,†but “Masonic associations.†This specific inclusion of Freemasonry’s appendant bodies is consistent with Humanum Genus, e.g.
There are several organized bodies which, though differing in name, in ceremonial, in form and origin, are nevertheless so bound together by community of purpose and by the similarity of their main opinions, as to make in fact one thing with the sect of the Freemasons, which is a kind of center whence they all go forth, and whither they all return. HG § 9
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_x ... us_en.html</a>
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Declaration on Masonic Associations (Quaesitum est)
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.
This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 [1981] pp. 240-241).
In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.
JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER
Prefect
+ Fr. JEROME HAMER, O.P.
Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ic_en.html</a>
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REFLECTIONS A YEAR AFTER DECLARATION
OF CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
Irreconcilability between Christian faith and Freemasonry
On 26 November 1983 the S. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (S.C.D.F.) published a declaration on Masonic associations (cf. AAS LXXVI [1984], 300). At a distance of little more than a year from its publication, it may be useful to outline briefly the significance of this document.
Since the Church began to declare her mind concerning Freemasonry, her negative judgment has been inspired by many reasons, both practical and doctrinal. She judged Freemasonry not merely responsible for subversive activity in her regard, but from the earliest pontifical documents on the subject and in particular in the Encyclical Humanum Genus by Leo XIII (20 April 1884), the Magisterium of the Church has denounced in Freemasonry philosophical ideas and moral conceptions opposed to Catholic doctrine. For Leo XIII, they essentially led back to a rationalistic naturalism, the inspiration of its plans and activities against the Church. In his Letter to the Italian people Custodi (8 December 1892), he wrote: «Let us remember that Christianity and Freemasonry are essentially irreconcilable, so that enrolment in one means separation from the other».
One could not therefore omit to take into consideration the positions of Freemasonry from the doctrinal point of view, when, during the years from 1970‑1980, the Sacred Congregation was in correspondence with some Episcopal Conferences especially interested in this problem because of the dialogue undertaken by some Catholic personages with representatives of some Masonic lodges which declared that they were not hostile, but were even favourable, to the Church.
Now more thorough study has led the S.C.D.F. to confirm its conviction of the basic irreconcilability between the principles of Freemasonry and those of the Christian faith.
Prescinding therefore from consideration of the practical attitude of the various lodges, whether of hostility towards the Church or not, with its declaration of 26 November 1983 the S.C.D.F. intended to take a position on the most profound and, for that matter, the most essential part of the problem: that is, on the level of the irreconcilability of the principles, which means on the level of the faith, and its moral requirements.
Beginning from this doctrinal point of view, and in continuity, moreover, with the traditional position of the Church as the aforementioned documents of Leo XIII attest, there arise then the necessary practical consequences, which are valid for all those faithful who may possibly be members of Freemasonry.
Nevertheless, with regard to the affirmation of the irreconcilability between the principles of Freemasonry and the Catholic faith, from some parts are now heard the objection that essential to Freemasonry would be precisely the fact that it does not impose any «principles», in the sense of a philosophical or religious position which is binding for all of its members, but rather that it gathers together, beyond the limits of the various religions and world views, men of good will on the basis of humanistic values comprehensible and acceptable to everyone.
Freemasonry would constitute a cohesive element for all those who believe in the Architect of the Universe and who feel committed with regard to those fundamental moral orientations which are defined, for example, in the Decalogue; it would not separate anyone from his religion, but on the contrary, would constitute an incentive to embrace that religion more strongly.
The multiple historical and philosophical problems which are hidden in these affirmations cannot be discussed here. It is certainly not necessary to emphasize that following the Second Vatican Council the Catholic Church too is pressing in the direction of collaboration between all men of good will. Nevertheless, becoming a member of Freemasonry decidedly exceeds this legitimate collaboration and has a much more important and final significance than this.
Above all, it must be remembered that the community of «Freemasons» and its moral obligations are presented as a progressive system of symbols of an extremely binding nature. The rigid rule of secrecy which prevails there further strengthens the weight of the interaction of signs and ideas. For the members this climate of secrecy entails above all the risk of becoming an instrument of strategies unknown to them.
Even if it is stated that relativism is not assumed as dogma, nevertheless there is really proposed a relativistic symbolic concept and therefore the relativizing value of such a moral-ritual community, far from being eliminated, proves on the contrary to be decisive.
In this context the various religious communities to which the individual members of the lodges belong can be considered only as simple institutionalizations of a broader and elusive truth. The value of these institutionalizations therefore appears to be inevitably relative with respect to this broader truth, which instead is shown in the community of good will, that is, in the Masonic fraternity.
In any case, for a Catholic Christian, it is not possible to live his relation with God in a twofold mode, that is, dividing it into a supraconfessional humanitarian form and an interior Christian form. He cannot cultivate relations of two types with God, nor express his relation with the Creator through symbolic forms of two types. That would be something completely different from that collaboration, which to him is obvious, with all those who are committed to doing good, even if beginning from different principles. On the one hand, a Catholic Christian cannot at the same time share in the full communion of Christian brotherhood and, on the other, look upon his Christian brother, from the Masonic perspective, as an «outsider».
Even when, as stated earlier, there were no explicit obligation to profess relativism as doctrine, nevertheless the relativizing force of such a brotherhood, by its very intrinsic logic, has the capacity to transform the structure of the act of faith in such a radical way as to become unacceptable to a Christian, «to whom his faith is dear» (Leo XIII).
Moreover, this distortion of the fundamental structure of the act of faith is carried out for the most part in a gentle way and without being noticed: firm adherence to the truth of God, revealed in the Church, becomes simple membership, in an institution, considered as a particular expressive form alongside other expressive forms, more or less just as possible and valid, of man’s turning toward the eternal.
The temptation to go in this direction is much stronger today, inasmuch as it corresponds fully to certain convictions prevalent in contemporary mentality. The opinion that truth cannot be known is a typical characteristic of our era and, at the same time, an essential element in its general crisis.
Precisely by considering all these elements, the Declaration of the Sacred Congregation affirms that membership in Masonic associations «remains forbidden by the Church», and the faithful who enrolls in them «are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion».
With this last statement, the Sacred Congregation points out to the faithful that this membership objectively constitutes a grave sin and by specifying that the members of a Masonic association may not receive Holy Communion, it intends to enlighten the conscience of the faithful about a grave consequence which must derive from their belonging to a Masonic lodge.
Finally, the Sacred Congregation declares that «it is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above». In this regard, the text also refers to the Declaration of 17 February 1981, which already reserved to the Apostolic See all pronouncements on the nature of these associations which may have implied derogations from the Canon Law then in force (Can. 2335). In the same way, the new document issued by the S.C.D.F. in November 1983 expresses identical intentions of reserve concerning pronouncements which would differ from the judgment expressed here on the irreconcilability of Masonic principles with the Catholic faith, on the gravity of the act of joining a lodge and on the consequences which arise from it for receiving Holy Communion. This disposition points out that, despite the diversity which may exist among Masonic obediences, in particular in their declared attitude towards the Church, the Apostolic See discerns some common principles in them which require the same evaluation by all ecclesiastical authorities.
In making this Declaration, the S.C.D.F. has not intended to disown the efforts made by those who, with the due authorization of this Congregation, have sought to establish a dialogue with representatives of Freemasonry. But since there was the possibility of spreading among the faithful the erroneous opinion that membership in a Masonic lodge was lawful, it felt that it was its duty to make known to them the authentic thought of the Church in this regard and to warn them about a membership incompatible with the Catholic faith.
Only Jesus Christ is, in fact, the Teacher of Truth, and only in him can Christians find the light and the strength to live according to God’s plan, working for the true good of their brethren.
[Article from L'Osservatore Romano dated March 11, 1985]
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... lo_en.html</a>
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Freemasonry exists and is active on a relatively small scale. There is no formal dialogue, although individual Freemasons have made friendly approaches, but without showing any interest in dialogue. The approaches seem designed to create a feeling that freemasonry is now ‘all right’.
Donal Murray, Bishop of Limerick, Ireland, Member of the Pontifical Council for Culture.
"A Response from Ireland"
Plenaria 2004, Summary.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20031503_doc_i-2003-ple_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/ponti ... le_en.html</a>
Answering the following question:
Is Freemasonry active in your region? Is there any dialogue with Freemasons?
From:
The challenge of alternative religions (Survey of Unbelief, Pontifical Council of Culture)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_doc_20030130_questionnaire-on-unbelief_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/ponti ... ef_en.html</a>
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Consistent:
Clement XII, Constitution "In Eminenti", 28 April, 1738;
Benedict XIV, "Providas", 18 May, 1751;
Clement XIII: "A. Quodie", Sept. 14, 1758;
Clement XIII: "Ut Primum", Sept. 3, 1759;
Clement XIII: "Christianae Reipublicae Salus"; Nov. 25, 1766
Pius VII, "Ecclesiam", 13 September, 1821;
Leo XII, "Quo graviora", 13 March, 1825;
Pius VIII, Encyclical "Traditi", 21 May, 1829;
Gregory XVI, "Mirari", 15 August, 1832;
Pius IX, Encyclical "Qui pluribus", 9 November, 1846;
Pius IX, Allocution "Quibus quantisque malis", 20 April, 1849;
Pius IX, Encyclical "Quanta cura", 8 December, 1864;
Pius IX, Allocution "Multiplices inter", 25 September, 1865;
Pius IX, Constitution "Apostolicæ Sedis", 12 October, 1869;
Pius IX, Encyclical "Etsi multa", 21 November, 1873;
Leo XIII, Encyclical "Humanum genus", 20 April, 1884;
Leo XIII, "Præclara", 20 June, 1894;
Leo XIII, "Annum ingressi", 18 March, 1902 (against Italian Freemasonry);
Leo XIII, Encyclical "Etsà nos", 15 February, 1882;
Leo XIII, "Ab Apostolici", 15 October, 1890.
Pius X: "Vehementer", Feb 11, 1906;
Pius X: Letter to France, Jan 6, 1907
"It is not the Church who first raised the standard, she did so only because war had been declared against her. For the last 25 years she has only had to bear the struggle. Such is the Truth. Declarations, a thousand times published and republished in the Press, in congresses, in Masonic conventions, in the very halls of Parliament, are proof in themselves that attacks against the Church have been led progressively and systematically. Such facts cannot be denied and against them mere words cannot prevail . . ."
(From letter of Pope St. Pius X to France, January 6, 1907.)