City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

I think many posts in this thread have come preciously close to identifying a fundamental misunderstanding in UEFA's outlook which has led it into a series of catastrophic blunders of which FFP is one. UEFA seems to take the view that the transition of the CL from an interesting competition which allowed fans to measure their champions and league against others to a blockbusting money maker which brought unprecedented wealth to UEFA and a potentially unshakeable pre-eminence to a small number of clubs, could not have taken place without a virtual alliance with those clubs. UEFA still feels it has to keep those same clubs sweet now or face secession and an end to its own pre-eminence. The same clubs have to win the cups or UEFA could be in big trouble. But this is not what is happening and UEFA is in trouble because it has set its face against what has always happened in football. If Abramovitch wanted to dominate football he has clearly failed. Sheikh Mansour has never aimed at monopolising football's prizes, though City have had a great decade. The Qataris have dominated Ligue 1 and the French cup, but Juventus in Italy, Bayern in Germany have done just as well along with countless other clubs in the majority of European leagues. Chelsea and City have bought success just like a whole host of clubs down the ages going back to "proud Preston", the original invincibles who had a team of players who supplemented their wages from football with jobs in cotton mills they never went near! But the only clubs which have managed to establish themselves in what they hope to be positions of permanent domination are the old allies of UEFA.
 
The Grauniad today says that the new ffp rules will focus on wages and fees. There is no material diff between this an the old ffp. It still focusses on expenditure rather than the real enemy, debt. We all know why, but one wonders just what UEFA AND G14 think this will achieve.
I wonder if some inside that nasty alliance have believed their own propaganda and think that City pay huge wages, agents' fees and transfer fees. If so, they are in for a surprise. They could have checked our accounts, but their case against us was that they were falsified. What irony.
City, ruining footy since, oh, forever.
If that does come to bear, then I'm all in!

Let them continue to spend more money and let their debt grow.

The gap between City's income and theirs decreases each year and it isn't that hugely relevant that we won't be able to compete for the top players.

Government backing won't and can't last forever for Real and Barca and both have lost or are about to lose their golden gooses.

Their popularity won't instantly wane, but they will need to now spend big and ensure they buy correctly to keep up with City and PSG. Huge pressures and if they get it wrong...

Keep Avram and his bros in Stretford and keep upping Ole's money. We all know that the Glazer's are trying to spend the minimal amount of money to ensure top 4, to keep the buck rolling in. OGS certainly isn't going to take them to League title glory any time soon, so they just plod along, to our mirth.

As others have said, in the last few years at Liverpool, they have brought in well over £1b. If the net spend of the team is £200m, where the heck has that all gone?!?!?!?
 
If that does come to bear, then I'm all in!

Let them continue to spend more money and let their debt grow.

The gap between City's income and theirs decreases each year and it isn't that hugely relevant that we won't be able to compete for the top players.

Government backing won't and can't last forever for Real and Barca and both have lost or are about to lose their golden gooses.

Their popularity won't instantly wane, but they will need to now spend big and ensure they buy correctly to keep up with City and PSG. Huge pressures and if they get it wrong...

Keep Avram and his bros in Stretford and keep upping Ole's money. We all know that the Glazer's are trying to spend the minimal amount of money to ensure top 4, to keep the buck rolling in. OGS certainly isn't going to take them to League title glory any time soon, so they just plod along, to our mirth.

As others have said, in the last few years at Liverpool, they have brought in well over £1b. If the net spend of the team is £200m, where the heck has that all gone?!?!?!?

John Henry says hi .
 
The Grauniad today says that the new ffp rules will focus on wages and fees. There is no material diff between this an the old ffp. It still focusses on expenditure rather than the real enemy, debt. We all know why, but one wonders just what UEFA AND G14 think this will achieve.
I wonder if some inside that nasty alliance have believed their own propaganda and think that City pay huge wages, agents' fees and transfer fees. If so, they are in for a surprise. They could have checked our accounts, but their case against us was that they were falsified. What irony.
City, ruining footy since, oh, forever.

we had something like that in Premier it didn’t work out
 
I like to think I'm pretty well clued up on who has won what in the English game but until I saw that, one thing that had passed me by is that Sheffield United have a league title to their name
As have WBA, Portsmouth even have back 2 back titles ffs.
 
Football has managed to con itself into a false sense of insecurity and has opened fire at entirely the wrong enemy. Football's problem is not financial but administrative. It has conjured up the predatory state masquerading as the super rich bogeyman determined to win "all the trophies" by inflating the transfer market, paying wages no other club can compete with and dominating the game. It is clear which two clubs are the villains here but it is also clear that the construct is without validity. If we take the game at a European level and begin at the time Sheikh Mansour (NOT Abu Dhabi) bought City in 2008 we note that Manchester City have not yet reached the final of the CL, PSG reached it for the first time, but were beaten, in 2020 and only one club has won the CL for the first time. That club is Chelsea, certainly owned by a very rich man and raised to the first rank by his money, but all the other winners won it for the first time in the 1950s, '60s or '70s - with the exception of Barcelona who had to wait until1992. Real Madrid have won it 6 times this century, which mirrors nicely the 7 times they won it last century. No doubt it will be argued that this is the consequence of FFP which maintained a gloriously level playing field and gave everyone a fair chance, but with that fiction we leave reality and begin telling fairy stories.

The PL has seen two clubs taken over by the super rich enemies of fair play and in the 17 seasons since Mr Abramovitch arrived Chelsea and City have won the title 7 times so far, though they have dominated increasingly in recent years. But in the 11 seasons before Abramovitch only on one occasion did a side other than Manchester United or Arsenal win the title and United won it no fewer than 8 times. Since 2003 United have won it a further 5 times - as many as Chelsea and one more than City. This period of domestic domination by one club - Manchester United - is not put down to money but rather to the brilliance of their manager. What is interesting is that when Ferguson was appointed he was provided with lavish owner investment every season to buy a team which might "knock Liverpool off their f****** perch". This unprecedented spending culminated in the floating of the club on the stock exchange to provide even greater funds and the very next season, with the arrival Schmeichel, Kanchelskis and Cantonna the GPC did buy the title at long last. United were a public company - not exactly state owned, but owned by any member of the public who could grab a share.

So, as we all know full well, involvement of the very rich and the buying of titles here and in Europe is nothing new and little concern was expressed. So what is new? It is, of course, the active participation of UEFA in this bean feast and their alliance with one group of clubs. The exploitation of soccer on the TV and of sponsorship meant that the dominant group of clubs in the 1990s were in a great position along with UEFA to make themselves very rich indeed and dominate the game at home and abroad. The alliance became rather one sided as breakaways were threatened and UEFA was forced to accept club officials on their committees as competition grew. This competition was not only financial - City have shown that they employ their resources better and in Guardiola have the best manager of the day. But UEFA's problem is administrative in that it feels the need to protect not football but its allies of the 90s now they face real difficulty. Football has never been threatened by money but certain clubs are.

UEFA have never identified one rich individual who intends to spend, spend and spend again and to establish a total dominance and win all the trophies. Abramovitch has spent a lot and won a lot but Chelsea have won one CL and are certainly not dominating English football. Sheikh Mansour has never expressed any desire to spend without restraint. In what other area of activity would someone who bought a business, planned a period of heavy investment to become competitive at the high end of the market so as to generate revenue to pay staff and shareholders better be regarded as a dangerous threat. The CBI might express concern about productivity and unit costs but would it really lay down as one of its aims to keep wages down and force them lower!

Football needs investment whether through debt or from the personal wealth of shareholders and any protectionist measures now to protect an elite which maintains its position through "undue influence" when its claim to a place at the top table belongs to yesterday would be disastrous.
Why does football need more money and not less? In 2026 Phil Foden would play for Man City for 100k per week if that was the going rate, if Mbappe is on £1m per week he wouldn't. Its that simple as far I'm concerned, your proposal for more investment probably keeps things ticking over for another 10 years but eventually it bursts.

All your arguments are valid, of course money has been the dominant factor since the beginning of time. However what's changed is the amounts, while Cantona and Keane may have been expensive at the time the figures involved didn't threatened the existence of the club if they went wrong. Now the numbers are so big that Barcelona can't pay their wages because 3 transfers went badly wrong. Griezmann, Coutinho and Dembele have cost that club about 600m, you would have to fill the Nou Camp every week for 10 years to pay that.

Look at the accounts of any of the top sides and income from match day is below 10% of turnover. Commercial deals and TV are the main sources of income. The game is reliant on outside sources to pay its bills and this pandemic has shown how vulnerable that situation is, French TV deal collapsed, English teams faced with claw backs, Inter's owners wanting out. The championship has to be the best example too much money in the game. 17 clubs pay more in wages that they take in in turnover, is there any other industry where that happens? Would it happen if there wasn't billions at the bottom of the rainbow? They are gambling their existence on getting lucky. Its madness at every level although at least the fans do have something to look forward too, its not the foregone conclusion of most leagues.

There has to be a tipping point when fans in Germany, France and Italy stop tuning in to see the usual 3 crowned as Champions, Spain at least spilts its winners. Looking the age profile of this City squad no one could say they would be surprised if they won the league for the next 5 years.

By that point Bayern will have 15/15,
PSG 12/12,
Juve 12/13,
City 8/9,

Neutrals won't pay to watch it, no viewers equals no TV deal and less commercial income. The game has to be in a position to survive once that happens and it can only happen by lowering the costs of wages and transfers.
 
Whereas Garry Cook was totally professional and did his best to sell the club's attractions and get the deal over the line. Anyone who slags Garry off is a tosser frankly. He saved us and got us to where we are today.
What is it with people remembering Garry Cook with rose tinted specs?

"Totally professional"
The man was a business man with very little knowledge of football.
A walking PR disaster who missed out on nearly every truly high profile player.
Additionally, and most damningly, he insulted Nedum Onuoha's mother, who was going through cancer treatment.

He was important for the club as his aggressive style was very useful for a club trying to make a mark but he would have eventually become obsolete anyway and his position was completely untenable after the email regarding Nedum's mother.

I'm sorry but the guy was a nob (call me tosser all you like). He was relatively good at his job but his continuous PR mistakes make him a complete liability. I am 1,000,000% happier with who we have now than Cook.
 

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