City v Chelsea post match

[Lancet Fluke]

It's going to take time. It was always going to take time. It was said before he came in that his system takes, for even world class players (ala Barca) a full season to adjust to. It's a completely different style of thinking and play than what comes natural.

There's going to be hiccups, but Pep's revolution is only beginning. Kolarov may never be a tiki taka player, but the young talent we are bringing in is laying the foundation for a Pep team and, again, it only makes sense that show some patience.

Totally accept that but I would have expected to see us gradually getting more able to play in Pep's way rather than being able to do it then not but maybe I am being too simplistic there. With some of it (one touch passing and movement off the ball) it can be confidence that has an impact, certainly those things always seem to improve with any team when confidence is high but the pressing high up the pitch is just about organisation and hard work and I just don't really see them attempting it to anything like the extent they were doing at one point. As you say though, it is early days.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Peps making the mistake of thinking this squad can do as he wants consistently, the whole back 5 is a shambles regardless of formation or personnel and until we have a DoF who can address this long standing issue we will flatter to deceive for the big prizes,its a player overhaul we need and that includes midfielders, Delph, Fernando are sub standard.

He seems to be putting his footballing principles first at and its costing us points, it wasn't the Chelsea game that pissed me off it just gave me clarity that this has been going on for longer than it should be without tweaking it to suit our personnel, its going to be a fine dividing line this season to finish top four in my opinion and its simply not good enough with the tools we have at the club.

Not sure where you're laying the blame (players, DoE, manager or all 3) and your post comes over as a blind panic. If your only concern is this season and given your observations, you may well be right about top 4.
I think we've got the right manager so I'm in the tortoise camp - believe me it's less stressful .

 

[BillyShears]

Totally accept that but I would have expected to see us gradually getting more able to play in Pep's way rather than being able to do it then not. With some of it (one touch passing and movement off the ball) it can be confidence that has an impact, certainly those things always seem to improve with any team when confidence is high but the pressing high up the pitch is just about organisation and hard work and I just don't really see them attempting it to anything like the extent they were doing at one point. As you say though, it is early days.

The only real major headache I see is that 1 vs 1 Pep's defenders need to be 8/10 every week. Sadly Kolarov and Otamendi are anything but that and therefore much more pressure is brought to bare on the defence as a whole than would be normal.

Having said that Pep isn't going to change the way he sets his team up. He'll just expect players to either improve with him, or move on next summer. It's a season of relative squad transition and part of me is glad that Pep isn't interested in playing to their strengths but rather finding out which players can play to his strengths.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Totally accept that but I would have expected to see us gradually getting more able to play in Pep's way rather than being able to do it then not. With some of it (one touch passing and movement off the ball) it can be confidence that has an impact, certainly those things always seem to improve with any team when confidence is high but the pressing high up the pitch is just about organisation and hard work and I just don't really see them attempting it to anything like the extent they were doing at one point. As you say though, it is early days.

I agree with you. It's really discouraging actually. We're becoming less of a Pep team as the season progresses. Yeah, we can lose games, we can have bad form, but it's reasonable to expect to see the players playing to a clear set of plans and movements. It's all a bit off the cuff right now, which was a key characteristic of Pellegrini's City. I don't understand why this is, but at the start of the season we were attempting his methods/ideas much more than we are now. I remember our relentless press and both full backs actually standing in the centre of midfield when we had the ball. It was obvious that we were working on something new. But now we just look all too familiar...

 

[flb]

Why exactly do you blame Pep for this? I'm genuinely interested.

He clearly wanted Laporte and his change of heart at the 11th hour was a major spanner in the works. Further, he wanted Bonucci too but for various reasons that one will have to wait too. It's obvious Pep is dissatisfied with the personnel available but he has what he has.

Smacks of looking for something to blame on Pep.



It's going to take time. It was always going to take time. It was said before he came in that his system takes, for even world class players (ala Barca) a full season to adjust to. It's a completely different style of thinking and play than what comes natural.

There's going to be hiccups, but Pep's revolution is only beginning. Kolarov may never be a tiki taka player, but the young talent we are bringing in is laying the foundation for a Pep team and, again, it only makes sense that show some patience.

The very least Pep can do with substandard players is play to our strengths which he simply isn't doing- the main one playing a settled formation week in week out, if he couldn't sign the players he wanted then surely that just makes the case stronger to play a system that suits the players we have, we have no pace at the back everyone on here agrees with that, don't have Otimendi and Kolorov/Stones occupying the centre circle when we have possession in the opponents penalty box-we have conceded goals to championship style football-hump it over our defenders heads, or pass it down the byline only to watch Otimendi sliding around on his arse or Kolorov trying to run backwards chasing Willian.

Id rather he play Maffeo and Angelino who have pace to burn who at least can give the striker a run for his money-just fucking row Z it out at times if need be, we are pace less at the back and it will only mean one thing this season Im afraid. So yes Pep has to shoulder some of the blame-hes not exempt from criticism just because of his past glory.

At what stage do we see if Maffeo and Angelino are good enough?

 

[flb]

Not sure where you're laying the blame (players, DoE, manager or all 3) and your post comes over as a blind panic. If your only concern is this season and given your observations, you may well be right about top 4.
I think we've got the right manager so I'm in the tortoise camp - believe me it's less stressful .

Ive said on here many a time that Peps second season is where we will see his mettle so its not blind panic at all, its game after game week after week at the moment watching us trying to hold onto leads or getting pegged back by inferior teams, we are fourth on merit, lets hope it stays that way as minimum.

 

[cibaman]

I agree with you. It's really discouraging actually. We're becoming less of a Pep team as the season progresses. Yeah, we can lose games, we can have bad form, but it's reasonable to expect to see the players playing to a clear set of plans and movements. It's all a bit off the cuff right now, which was a key characteristic of Pellegrini's City. I don't understand why this is, but at the start of the season we were attempting his methods/ideas much more than we are now. I remember our relentless press and both full backs actually standing in the centre of midfield when we had the ball. It was obvious that we were working on something new. But now we just look all too familiar...

Isnt that because the inevitable has happened? Opponents are coming up with ways of playing against us (starting with the Spurs game). Its not that the players are deliberately not playing as they did at the start of the season. Its that opponents are better at trying to stop us and some of our players arent good enough to impose our game plan on them.

The thing about the full backs moving into midfield is a classic example. It had that element of surprise at first, confused opponents. But I think Pep realised that the full backs are not really good enough in that role and once that element of surprise was lost he ditched it.

 

[BillyShears]

The very least Pep can do with substandard players is play to our strengths which he simply isn't doing- the main one playing a settled formation week in week out, if he couldn't sign the players he wanted then surely that just makes the case stronger to play a system that suits the players we have, we have no pace at the back everyone on here agrees with that, don't have Otimendi and Kolorov/Stones occupying the centre circle when we have possession in the opponents penalty box-we have conceded goals to championship style football-hump it over our defenders heads, or pass it down the byline only to watch Otimendi sliding around on his arse or Kolorov trying to run backwards chasing Willian.

Id rather he play Maffeo and Angelino who have pace to burn who at least can give the striker a run for his money-just fucking row Z it out at times if need be, we are pace less at the back and it will only mean one thing this season Im afraid. So yes Pep has to shoulder some of the blame-hes not exempt from criticism just because of his past glory.

At what stage do we see if Maffeo and Angelino are good enough?

Our strength isn't defending, it's attacking. Which is probably why we play such a high line and our defenders are in the centre circle most games. If they were to drop 20 yards deeper the midfield would have to do the same and before you know it we'll be a Mourinho team and not a Pep one.

Also, it's important that over the medium/long term the squad of players understand what it is that's required of them. If Pep simply gives up his own philosophy to make things easier for certain player when will the players learn how to play his way?

 

[Lancet Fluke]

The only real major headache I see is that 1 vs 1 Pep's defenders need to be 8/10 every week. Sadly Kolarov and Otamendi are anything but that and therefore much more pressure is brought to bare on the defence as a whole than would be normal.

Having said that Pep isn't going to change the way he sets his team up. He'll just expect players to either improve with him, or move on next summer. It's a season of relative squad transition and part of me is glad that Pep isn't interested in playing to their strengths but rather finding out which players can play to his strengths.

Well I think you know my opinions on the way we set up over the last couple of years and the demands that puts on the defenders. Just my opinion but when we were doing better with the pressing high up the pitch early this season it seemed to me that we were winning the ball back quickly (and regularly) or at the very least that pressing was seriously hindering opposition counter attacks. At that point there was nothing like the same demands on the defenders. Now that we aren't pressing as effectively up the pitch we are right back to the same demands on the defenders as we had last season so no surprise to see the likes of Otamendi and Kolarov floundering again. I have no doubt that we will buy new defenders and if they are better players they will cope with any demands put on them better but the real solution IMO is to get the pressing sorted again so that our defenders aren't facing those one on ones with the same regularity. Otamendi may be able to deal with being exposed very occasionally and make good decisions but the more it happens the greater the stress and the more he's going to dive in and fuck things up. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we are still pressing high up with the same intensity but personally I just don't see it and I don't think it is a coincidence that our defending is unravelling in correlation with that. This isn't really a criticism of Pep, I think he really has the right idea with the way we were playing and while you knew there would always be the odd game where teams combatted it (Spurs) by and large you could see it was generally going to work. I'm just baffled by the regression and that we don't seem to be attempting to play like I think he wants us to.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Settled starting 11, settled formation. Easy