Coronavirus (2021) thread

[St.Pauli support]

Any of our in the know science experts whose knowledge I trust in here able to comment on todays news of the 30 cases of blood clots in the UK from AZ vaccine versus none at all from Pfizer.

The number of doses given are pretty similar up to quite recently and if that story on BBC news just now is true then that disparity - tiny as it is - would concern me as to a real issue potentially. Out of proportion as it might well have been taken.

I find the BBC claim of 30 versus zero rather hard to just accept as with 15 million plus or so doses of Pfizer given - the two are not that far apart in UK use - then it would be pretty amazing if there were zero cases by chance alone.

Some interesting points from German scientists:
(please correct me on UK facts)

Germany up to now have had about 2.7m persons vaccinated with AZ within 7 weeks with 31 sinus vein thrombosis cases (29 female).
Without vaccination we have 10 cases per year (per 2.7m persons)!
So there's an apparent difference.

We have asked ourselves why we have more cases but UK haven't, despite much more jabs. Til mid March UK have reported 5 cases, after that 25 new cases.

What scientists ASSUME is an autoimmune reaction to the vaccine.
Generally women have a stronger immune system (and generally more autoimmune diseases).
Older persons have a weaker immune system and therefore we only had 1 case over 60 (being 64 IIRC).

MAYBE more cases now appear in UK as more women under 60 are being vaccinated, and the difference in cases has to do with a different strategy of vaccination between UK and Germany (strict age groups from old to younger or antedate more younger persons from essential jobs like nurses and teachers, mostly female).

Or did UK change reporting standards?

The risk of having that rare brain thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) is still very low but we defo have to monitor closely if younger women are at higher risk to keep numbers down.

German women [EDIT: and men] under 60 now won't get the 2nd AZ jab (only if they insist), but Biotech/Pfizer or Moderna,
even if we have not yet sufficient data if that's a good idea.
Special trials are still ongoing til end April, they say.

 

[Healdplace]

That makes sense and certainly the bigger question is where are any similar cases in Pfizer vaccinations? There are almost none in the UK so that certainly is a difference.

I do worry if this is something the UK government suspected might be an issue but needed more data to affirm and - as they were not really using it on patients in the most at risk for a reaction group much - they opted to downplay and not derail the vaccine programme.

Trouble is that if they did do this then it will start to create real loss of confidence and some declining the second dose - let alone a presumed decision not to give AZ to younger people on balance of higher risk.

I said a few days ago the government needs to properly address this in the open not just hope people presume we know what we are doing and the rest of the world is too cautious.

Gambles do pay off. This one might well pay off big time. But we should be told straight if the risk is being minimised to get ahead of the virus as that is a choice every person should make on their own volition in full knowledge of the facts not assumptions of political game play or differing levels of vaccine caution by the medical boards of global nations.

We seem well outnumbered by those saying go forth and vaccinate but do not use this on younger patients just in case.

Have we taken that decision anyway and just not said? As integrity matters here. It will damage confidence in those who should be taking it if we do not be clear on the facts here.

My second jab is due on Star Wars Day and I am still not going to turn it down from what I know right now. But I have certainly heard from more people who have said to me they will only now have the other one second time around - despite my telling them I do not think that is considered safe as it has not been tested properly. You have to have the same vaccine you had first time.


If that feeling grows it could start to be a problem - though luckily the UK Is a fairly sensible nation able to balance risk wisely. Provided the facts are made known.

 

[feelymcfeel]

People just don’t see it. Even if you think it’s perfectly reasonable under these circumstances it sets a precedent. Case law if you like. Just because we are already surveilled beyond belief, that’s not a reason to go further.

For my own personal reasons I have chosen to have the vaccine. But the thought of that entitling me to a passport which allows me to get into The Etihad when other blues cannot because they have exercised their own choice makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. If the vaccine works then it really shouldn’t matter whether the guy sat next to me is vaccinated or not. It’s divisive nonsense.

You can say all this until you're blue in the face pal, but people won't listen because, 'we're in a pandemic,' or, 'you clearly don't care about other people,' or, 'if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about.'

I find it more worrying that people seem to be ok with authoritarianism and totalitarianism. Some people have clearly never read 1984, or Brave New World, or have paid any attention to history in any capacity. Can't seem to realise it's not necessarily about right now, it's the precedent it sets for the future.

 

[BlueHammer85]

You can say all this until you're blue in the face pal, but people won't listen because, 'we're in a pandemic,' or, 'you clearly don't care about other people,' or, 'if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about.'

I find it more worrying that people seem to be ok with authoritarianism and totalitarianism. Some people have clearly never read 1984, or Brave New World, or have paid any attention to history in any capacity.

Everyone has iPhones nowadays- if Goverment want to track you and snoop on you. Then they can easily.

 

[feelymcfeel]

Everyone has iPhones nowadays- if Goverment want to track you and snoop on you. Then they can easily.

It's not just about being 'snooped on,' it's about its effects on wider society. Being forced to publicly declare private information simply to engage with society? Do you not see a problem with how that might pan out? It's forced segregation, and would invariably create a two-tier society, with the compliant on top of the undesirables.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths 43 - exactly same as last Friday.

Though only 8 from North West v 15 a week ago.

Only 34 of those 43 happened in the past month.

Though 3 of those 43 were aged under 40 btw. And 11 in total under 60.

So a quarter of deaths today in the less vulnerable and largely as yet unvaccinated age groups.

By chance also the same number as yesterday - 43 - with just 2 from NW then.

Is still a slight disappointment to see no week to week fall for first time in a while. But I guess it will happen now we are at such low numbers. We may never get to 0 deaths every day unfortunately

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

So they can contact you if there are any reports of cases in that establishment so that you have to isolate if you were there at that time.

Lots of people still live with or work with people with health conditions who haven’t had the vaccine yet who would be under threat of severe illness or death from COVID.

so it isn't safe then.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

We’ve been the most surveillance country in the world since the 1990s. And for a good decade or more, our phones track our every move. Doesn’t matter what apps you have given permission to, only if you turn your phone off can MI5 not track you if they wanted to.

worked with Salman Abedi didn't it. It's the principle and whose hands the data ends up in, either a useless app or giving bogus info on a sheet so the local thug doesn't read it and have you burgled whilst in the pub, so it comes down to its either safe and we don't need surveillance, or it isn't, in which case we're playing fast and loose with people's lives so people can have a drink. We're all a year in, we don't "need" it anymore.

 

[unicorn]

England hospital deaths 43 - exactly same as last Friday.

Though only 8 from North West v 15 a week ago.

Only 34 of those 43 happened in the past month.

By chance also the same number as yesterday - 43 - with just 2 from NW then.

Is still a slight disappointment to see no week to week fall for first time in a while. But I guess it will happen now we are at such low numbers. We may never get to 0 deaths every day unfortunately

It was 132 deaths reported only 3 weeks ago, as you say as numbers reach low levels we'll see days like this.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Only if you look underage. Otherwise they have no reason to ask.

they have no reason to ask my whereabouts via app or giving my details if it's as safe as being made out to open up again...