Coronavirus (2021) thread

[BobKowalski]

far out weighing the one disease ! its like nothing else matters anymore!

Covid was an unknown and therefore unquantifiable risk. In the face of an unquantifiable risk you apply strong measures to protect the system.

Over the years we will collect more data and quantify the threat and the system will adapt and learn to live with the virus. Vaccines, over the counter treatments, mask wearing in confined public areas becoming a more routine habit etc., are steps along the way to making this happen.

 

[inbetween]

far out weighing the one disease ! its like nothing else matters anymore!

You have to put yourself in the risk management corner and ask yourself would you personally sign off on keeping relaxed rules whilst a new and more infectious variant is doing the rounds? The government got caught with its pants down this time last year and the hospitals were battered whilst tens of thousands died so they're very unlikely to risk it again.

Every year we generally have the same number of heart attacks, the same number of flu cases and the same number of everything else. How many COVID cases and hospitalisations will there be next month?

You can't answer this question and so you basically have no choice but to take a cautious route to reduce cases where possible, especially over winter when you're already taking a beating elsewhere. It's also especially true when a completely unknown variant is beginning to do the rounds which will take a month to really impact us.

 

[Manchester33]

Lockdowns led to reduced quality of education for our kids, which in turn will lead to reduced long term prospects for some (most likely the most disadvantaged). They led to cancelled or delayed tests and treatment for cancer and other critical diseases, which will inevitably lead to an increase in what would have been preventable deaths. Reduced access to non-critical health services leading to an increase in depressions and long term mental health issues. Devastation of massive swathes of the economy leading to a massive increase in the debt, which in term restricts the scope for increases in government spending and/or tax rises to fund it. Devastation of the tourist and hospitality sectors. Increase in suicides and domestic abuse. Probable increase in child abuse since the main avenue for detecting this abuse is schools, I've not seen any analysis of the third world impacts of first world lockdowns but these should also be factored in. There needs to be an independent public enquiry to get to the bottom of the impacts of these interventions, so that people understand the costs as well as the benefits.

I agree there needs to be an independent public inquiry but had it not been for the lockdowns out NHS would have collapsed and that would have been far, far more detrimental to our society than all the factors you list. I think our government are a shambles and they've made many bad decisions (mainly not locking down quickly enough), but essentially every country on the planet adhered to some type of lockdown which is telling.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

its not up to him anymore. its mandated they need to be fully vaccinated before spring.. that includes the 12 week gap.

I guess his different path will be a different job.

Which will certainly help out the NHS…
I’ve asked a few on here but I’ll give up you a go as well. Imagine you were at the football and, like the bloke at Newcastle the other week, you need CPR. The only doctor available is the ITU doctor you mentioned who’s just been sacked. As he approaches to save your life, will you hand him a form, or ask one of your mates to check, that he’s vaccinated and, if not, tell him that he’s to leave you to die?

 

[grunge]

Which will certainly help out the NHS…
I’ve asked a few on here but I’ll give up you a go as well. Imagine you were at the football and, like the bloke at Newcastle the other week, you need CPR. The only doctor available is the ITU doctor you mentioned who’s just been sacked. As he approaches to save your life, will you hand him a form, or ask one of your mates to check, that he’s vaccinated and, if not, tell him that he’s to leave you to die?

And why are you asking me a question like it? Im not the one that makes the laws up. All I did was say what was happening. my opinion is as important as yours on it. as in, not at all.

 

[Manchester33]

The thing I don't get is why so many people are behaving as if we are back in March 2020 and the whole thing is starting again and that omicron is a totally new virus. We are in a totally different situation to that of March 2020 and indeed Winter 2020/21. There will be variants forevermore and so those demanding restrictions and lockdown need to realise what it is they are asking for. To demand a lockdown 'just in case' shows how people have lost all proportion and have become unable to view the world outside of preventing covid infections. You can't just switch society on and off every few months ad infinitum.

I think most reasonable people accept that the first lockdown was unavoidable and justified given where we were at the time, as was the winter one despite how depressing it was for everyone. However, is is not a permanent strategy and once we have high vax and natural immunity levels we really must get on with it and get ourselves out of this cycle of fear and hysteria (the media has a lot to answer for). Omicron is not a totally new virus, it is a variant of a virus we've been dealing with for two years and so far the vaccines have held up well and there is no reason to assume they are now going to be hopeless. Even when Delta hit, vaccination levels were much lower than now.

As always, the quotes from the scientists are that this 'could' be more transmissible and 'may' have a greater ability to evade vaccines but it's clear no one actually knows. Every year the flu has a new strain and the flu vaccine is the scientists' best guess at the variant of the season. Time will tell but the reality is it's already here and probably has been for a while.

Sturgeon demanding that all travellers isolate is not going to make a blind bit of difference if it's already here and is more competitive than delta. Of course she knows it's a hysterical demand but she's only saying that so she can stoke up resentment to Westminster and claim that only independence will allow her voice to rule the roost.

Bringing forward boosters is sensible and is the best thing citizens can do to do their bit.

Who is requesting lockdowns?

Lockdowns are different to other restrictions. Wearing a mask in a shop isn't a blight on anyone's liberty, but it could reduce the chance of another lockdown. All the 'freedom fighters' are going about it in the wrong way. If you don't want another lockdown, wear a mask, get vaccinated, work from home where you can etc. There's slim chance we'd ever need another full scale lockdown because of the vaccines, but COVID is still causing issues for our health service which means others who're desperately in need of operations and hospital care are missing out.

You can either accept that we're living through a pandemic and alter small habits accordingly, or you can bury your head in the sand and pretend like our collective actions don't have consequences.

 

[Manchester33]

Which will certainly help out the NHS…
I’ve asked a few on here but I’ll give up you a go as well. Imagine you were at the football and, like the bloke at Newcastle the other week, you need CPR. The only doctor available is the ITU doctor you mentioned who’s just been sacked. As he approaches to save your life, will you hand him a form, or ask one of your mates to check, that he’s vaccinated and, if not, tell him that he’s to leave you to die?

You have to question the intelligence of NHS staff not getting vaccinated though, don't you?

 

[BobKowalski]

Which will certainly help out the NHS…
I’ve asked a few on here but I’ll give up you a go as well. Imagine you were at the football and, like the bloke at Newcastle the other week, you need CPR. The only doctor available is the ITU doctor you mentioned who’s just been sacked. As he approaches to save your life, will you hand him a form, or ask one of your mates to check, that he’s vaccinated and, if not, tell him that he’s to leave you to die?

That is just simple risk analysis. Two paths. One is certain death, the other isn’t, so you chose the latter.

To be fair, when you are gasping your last, I’d take a chance on the doctor with weeping sores on his face.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

And why are you asking me a question like it? Im not the one that makes the laws up. All I did was say what was happening. my opinion is as important as yours on it. as in, not at all.

Presumably you have an opinion on it though, as this is a forum primarily based on opinions?
Apologies if you’re not one of the people actually advocating that highly skilled, life saving clinicians are sacked from their jobs because they haven’t been vaccinated. However, my original point was that, if people are that way minded, they would be steaming hypocrites if they accepted his help, whatever the emergency should be.

 

[mccity]

I've just had my booster. The lady who jabbed me was saying how little she's had to do these past few days, which we agreed was a bit depressing.

The winter time is a perfect time for viruses to spread. Either everyone is indoors or we're outside where our lower body temperature compromises our immune systems. We have a responsibility to be smarter here.