Coronavirus (2021) thread

[mccity]

Apologies if that was my fault but once the questions were asked and answered I thought it was OK to post a few numbers to clarify the question. But understood and I will stop doing so altogether in here from now on. But posters popping in on here are bound to ask data questions from time to time as it is hard to entirely unravel them from most questions about Covid.

You don't need to apologise, you've not committed a sin or anything, and the data comments started before you did either way.

 

[BlueAnorak]

11,600 people probably or definately caught Covid in hospital and died and a further 48,227 probably or definitely caught Covid in hospital and survived.
A massive under estimate I think baring in mind the NHS definition of "definately" means catching it in hospital after a stay of 14 days and "probably" after 7 days. The infection curve lower quartile for infection being 3 days and the upper quartile being 5 & 1/2 days. The NHS definitions of "definate" and "probable" infection rule out an awful lot of possible infections.

 

[Dage]

Apologies if that was my fault but once the questions were asked and answered I thought it was OK to post a few numbers to clarify the question. But understood and I will stop doing so altogether in here from now on. But posters popping in on here are bound to ask data questions from time to time as it is hard to entirely unravel them from most questions about Covid.

If they're part of the discussion I personally have no problem with them.

 

[Gabriel]

I was talking to one of my German colleagues earlier and I asked him about the situation in Saxony, Eastern Germany (he lives in Dresden).

I’d read that cases, hospitalisations and deaths were going up rapidly and he said that his wife, who is a nurse, says that 90% of the Covid patients in her hospital are elderly & unvaccinated. The vaccination rate in Saxony is around 45%, which is the lowest in Germany.

If one looks at the vaccination rate across Europe (not the EU), one can see a marked difference in rates in the East compared with rates in the West. Certain countries buck the trend, of course, but there is a discernible pattern.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

If one looks at the vaccination rate across Europe (not the EU), one can see a marked difference in rates in the East compared with rates in the West. Certain countries buck the trend, of course, but there is a discernible pattern.

If the issue is linked to relative affluence to vaccine take up, then we have a similar problem in England.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

All frontline NHS staff in England WILL need to be fully vaccinated


https://mol.im/a/10180845

 

[SWP's back]

All frontline NHS staff in England WILL need to be fully vaccinated


https://mol.im/a/10180845

Absolutely right.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Absolutely right.

They have a responsibility to return to work as quickly as possible if they become ill. That alone, without the accident transmission arguments, is probably enough to mandate vaccinations for NHS staff.

FWIW, it was great to read over the last week that vaccinations are cutting cervical cancer by 90%. Hopefully, they weakens some of the anti vaxx minority in the NHS.

I'm less convinced about mandatory vaccinations for the wider population as this doesn’t seem to work. That said, the people not taking the vaccines don’t help themselves by spreading misinformation they gather off social media.

 

[Gabriel]

If the issue is linked to relative affluence to vaccine take up, then we have a similar problem in England.

More likely an underlying distrust of the state, coupled with socio-economic factors.

 

[west didsblue]

11,600 people probably or definately caught Covid in hospital and died and a further 48,227 probably or definitely caught Covid in hospital and survived.
A massive under estimate I think baring in mind the NHS definition of "definately" means catching it in hospital after a stay of 14 days and "probably" after 7 days. The infection curve lower quartile for infection being 3 days and the upper quartile being 5 & 1/2 days. The NHS definitions of "definate" and "probable" infection rule out an awful lot of possible infections.

I looked up definate and definately in the dictionary and couldn't find them.

 

[Healdplace]

Hardly a great message to impose this onto hospital staff on the day Boris is pictured as the only one in the hospital maskless greeting doctors and nurses all in masks.

I think the staff should be vaccinated as it sends the wrong message to the public otherwise.

But I also think politicians of any party should never do stupid things in settings that will set a bad example either. Just crazy nobody explained to him that going maskless into that setting in front of cameras was not exactly great PR when asking staff to do something some do not want to do or lose their jobs - whether the mask was strictly necessary or not where he was it is all about the messagesent to the public.

Unless that was deliberate as a kind of pandemic is (sort of) over folks signal to the public. Which if truly why this happened then just undermines further the message of all hospital staff must be jabbed. Now.

The planning of these moves seeems almost thought up on the back of an evelope on the spur of the monent as we go along and lacks cohesion. When we need well planned strategy to get through this Winter.

 

[blueparrot]

Hardly a great message to impose this onto hospital staff on the day Boris is pictured as the only one in the hospital maskless greeting doctors and nurses all in masks.

I think the staff should be vaccinated as it sends the wrong message to the public otherwise.

But I also think politicians of any party should never do stupid things in settings that will set a bad example either. Just crazy nobody explained to him that going maskless into that setting was not exactly great PR when asking staff to do something sone do not want to do or lose their jobs - whether the mask was strictly necessary or not it is all about the message to the public.

Nothing about his lack of awareness of how things he does are perceived surprises me. His lack of people advising him does though.

 

[shackattack]

Travelled back to Heathrow yesterday and the queues in arrivals were shocking. Half the gates were not even open and the sheer incompetency at border control was frightening. Worrying that we will never come out of this pandemic at all and further lockdowns await as other countries return to normality

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

They have a responsibility to return to work as quickly as possible if they become ill. That alone, without the accident transmission arguments, is probably enough to mandate vaccinations for NHS staff.

FWIW, it was great to read over the last week that vaccinations are cutting cervical cancer by 90%. Hopefully, they weakens some of the anti vaxx minority in the NHS.

I'm less convinced about mandatory vaccinations for the wider population as this doesn’t seem to work. That said, the people not taking the vaccines don’t help themselves by spreading misinformation they gather off social media.

Not having a vaccine does not equate to being anti-vaxx, ffs and, the sooner we stop trying to shame people over their choices, not only the better but the more chance we have of them taking up the offer.

As for all NHS staff being vaccinated, we can’t currently record vaccinations given overseas and, given our massive reliance on an overseas qualified workforce, that could be a problem.

Finally, if you were that bloke at Newcastle the other week who had some sort of cardiac event, would you, or the person with you who knows your views, whilst grasping your chest and fighting for breath, say to the Doctor that came over to do CPR: “before you carry on mate, can I see your vaccine passport”?

 

[uweblue]

The one person per hospital meme is just that, a meaningless meme. It includes all sorts of institutions that would never, in reality, take a covid patient.

The average stay is, about a week, not a "few hours". That's just obviously false. We currently have about 9000 inpatients with covid and 1000 a day being admitted.

9000/1000 = average stay, 9 days, very roughly.

1000/day sounds bad, and is bad.

Tbf where is this average stay is a week. Never seen that before.

I agree with other chap most hospital visits will a few hours check bloods , oxygen level

 

[AlgarveBlu]

They have a responsibility to return to work as quickly as possible if they become ill. That alone, without the accident transmission arguments, is probably enough to mandate vaccinations for NHS staff.

FWIW, it was great to read over the last week that vaccinations are cutting cervical cancer by 90%. Hopefully, they weakens some of the anti vaxx minority in the NHS.

I'm less convinced about mandatory vaccinations for the wider population as this doesn’t seem to work. That said, the people not taking the vaccines don’t help themselves by spreading misinformation they gather off social media.

Thank God social media wasn't around when smallpox was going around whilst global vaccination programme was rolled out or we would still be stuck with that virus as well today - This world has always been populated by charlatans all over the globe but in the past they never had a real platform to spew out all their bullshit.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Tbf where is this average stay is a week. Never seen that before.

I agree with other chap most hospital visits will a few hours check bloods , oxygen level

It's very simple - if 1,000 people a day are being admitted, but there are 9,000 in hospital, the average stay is 9 days.

[Edit: if it stays constant - the dynamics of up and down shifts means it's not quite that simple, but admissions and inpatients hasn't shifted much for many weeks, so it's a reasonable approximation]

 

[PragueBlue]

More likely an underlying distrust of the state.

That's certainly the case here.

After over 40 years of communism, there isn't much confidence or trust in governments, particularly among the older generation that lived through those times. Couple that with a rather blasé younger generation that thinks Covid doesn't really affect them, it creates a major problem but not sure what can be done about it.

 

[BlueHammer85]

COVID deaths in Russia hit a new record today and new confirmed cases remained high two days after a nine-day non-working period ended in most of the country's regions.

Some 1,211 COVID-19 deaths were reported by the state coronavirus task force, the highest number of daily deaths in the pandemic, along with 39,160 new cases.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

COVID deaths in Russia hit a new record today and new confirmed cases remained high two days after a nine-day non-working period ended in most of the country's regions.

Some 1,211 COVID-19 deaths were reported by the state coronavirus task force, the highest number of daily deaths in the pandemic, along with 39,160 new cases.

The official statistics from Russia are complete nonsense. Clearly 39k positive cases doesn’t translate to over 1000 deaths. Testing is obviously nothing like the UK as they should be picking up many times that number of cases.

The official stats have a very narrow definition of a Covid death so the real indicator is the excess deaths figure since Covid started. That was 600,000 plus deaths months ago.