COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[shemnel]

Let them mate.
When each airline starts introducing no fly rules without a vaccine, or countries have vaccine passports that include coronavirus then there will be a few more lining up in the queue.

We‘ve been to countries that insist on Hep A&B, yellow fever, typhoid and even dengue fever. Have taken malaria and altitude sickness pills, but we still go.
They’ll just add coronavirus to the list of required injections for travel.

i have travelled quite a bit and have never encountered a border force that requires proof of vaccination. I know some countries get a bit iffy (and some do require certificates) if your coming from a country with high risk of yellow fever, mainly African nations.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I guess that all we can do is wait for the peer reviewed full paper to be published, but seeing loads of concern regarding the trial and the manner in which the results have been published. Seen it suggested that AZ are almost looking desperate due to the high bar set on efficacy by Pfizer and Moderna. Also seen it suggested that the 90% efficacy rating was from a group of volunteers from an age cap of 55.

Think there's more to come of this but in honesty it doesn't really change much for now as I'd assume the peer reviewed papers based on completely full data would give the final verdict anyway.

That may be why Oxford mentioned the 90% as an exciting possibility, and not as an outcome.

I'm not sure AstraZeneca would be desperate about 62%, given the ease and cost, but maybe it's just different reporting emphasis for different countries.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Let them mate.
When each airline starts introducing no fly rules without a vaccine, or countries have vaccine passports that include coronavirus then there will be a few more lining up in the queue.

We‘ve been to countries that insist on Hep A&B, yellow fever, typhoid and even dengue fever. Have taken malaria and altitude sickness pills, but we still go.
They’ll just add coronavirus to the list of required injections for travel.

That's an excellent point. I have one of those booklets of vaccinations current, and it's easy to add another vaccine.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

i have travelled quite a bit and have never encountered a border force that requires proof of vaccination. I know some countries get a bit iffy (and some do require certificates) if your coming from a country with high risk of yellow fever, mainly African nations.

As you say, yellow fever is the main one for travelling around countries.

Insurance companies may well ask for it though.

 

[shemnel]

As you say, yellow fever is the main one for travelling around countries.

Insurance companies may well ask for it though.

not saying they wont, and it looks like IATA are well along with planning covid vaccine requirements now, but it barely exists in the world at the moment.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

not saying they wont, and it looks like IATA are well along with planning covid vaccine requirements now, but it barely exists in the world at the moment.

That's interesting, I hadn't really thought about it before.

It makes sense though, as they can issue paperwork with something about Covid, and update it as appropriate.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Granted they should be listened to and some are the experts in their field.
However, some of the work done by SAGE has been modelling. Some of their models have been proved to widely incorrect.
And don’t get me started on the ‘behavioural’ scientists, a misnomer if ever there was one.

Nonsense.

You have nothing to offer here except assertions that you know better than experts.

You don't.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Christmas not making much sense. The scientists are saying don’t mix Johnson is saying up to 3 households can mix but we must be sensible about it. what the hell does that mean?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

That may be why Oxford mentioned the 90% as an exciting possibility, and not as an outcome.

I'm not sure AstraZeneca would be desperate about 62%, given the ease and cost, but maybe it's just different reporting emphasis for different countries.

After reading a bit on this I *think* it's like this.

The 90% cohort is based on very sparse data - just two or three positive on the active arm.

But, nevertheless, the results demonstrate superiority at a statistically significant level over the higher dose.

So they will ask for approval from the regulator for the lower dose.

That's at the margins of what would typically be approved, and there are considerable uncertainties which may have biased that, and negates the basics statistical analysis (all the lower dose subjects were in the UK, not randomly across countries, for instance).

Ideally, we'd just wait for more data. But waiting isn't an option with 100s of people dying every day, the whole country in lockdown and the overall result being clearly positive benefit vs risk.

So a decision needs to be made on this limited data between the doses.

Just my personal reading of the situation, please don't take as in any way authoritative.

 

[mosssideblue]

Christmas not making much sense. The scientists are saying don’t mix Johnson is saying up to 3 households can mix but we must be sensible about it. what the hell does that mean?

Fairly straightforward imo.
The scientists are correct in saying allowing people to mix indoors is inviting trouble downstream.
Boris wanted to fall in line with the scientists and ban all social gatherings but knows if he did that, too many would simply say bollocks and do their own thing anyways.
He therefore is trying to mitigate the risk of a free for all by allowing gatherings for a window of time hoping many will support that and not simply take the piss

 

[squirtyflower]

i have travelled quite a bit and have never encountered a border force that requires proof of vaccination. I know some countries get a bit iffy (and some do require certificates) if your coming from a country with high risk of yellow fever, mainly African nations.

I seem to recall a fair few Asian countries have asked to see our vaccination certificates.

 

[squirtyflower]

Nonsense.

You have nothing to offer here except assertions that you know better than experts.

You don't.

I’ve just offered you ‘they should be listened to’.
However the word scientist does not have ‘infallible’ written next to it in the dictionary.

Please show me a post where I have said I know better than the ‘experts’. If you can’t then might I suggest you take your tantrum somewhere else?

What I do though is I question.
Why are we not able to question the experts?
Even the experts can’t agree with one another.

Edit
Aaahhh, penny dropped.

Are you a behaviour scientist by any chance?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Please show me a post where I have said I know better than the ‘experts’.

"And don’t get me started on the ‘behavioural’ scientists, a misnomer if ever there was one."

You're welcome.

Now, how about if you disagree with experts, you offer substantive criticism of specific points you disagree with rather than insults such as Bunch of liars, cheats and robbers stealing our freedom and way of life.

For instance, offer specific examples of lies - deliberate falsehoods- and demonstrate they are so.

 

[hammocity]

Before checking in online most Airlines ask for pre departure information, passport details, DOB, country of origin, etc. Surely this could be used to add in a section for the Covid vaccine. All dependent on how the government deals with vaccine information, a digital certificate shouldn't be too difficult to process.

 

[Healdplace]

Scotland data up first:

44 deaths tragically - which is down on last week. Always a big catch up day like Tuesdays.

880 cases at 6.8% positive.

260 in Greater Glasgow, 190 Lanarkshire, 122 Grampian and 94 Lothian.

1161 in hospital DOWN 36 on yesterday.

84 on ventilator icu - same as yesterday.

 

[squirtyflower]

"And don’t get me started on the ‘behavioural’ scientists, a misnomer if ever there was one."

You're welcome.

Now, how about if you disagree with experts, you offer substantive criticism of specific points you disagree with rather than insults such as Bunch of liars, cheats and robbers stealing our freedom and way of life.

For instance, offer specific examples of lies - deliberate falsehoods- and demonstrate they are so.

I think you have me confused with Bluematt. The second paragraph you have in italics were written by him, not me.

However I do admit to the belief that ‘behavioural’ scientists should not be included as scientists as their field is not a science discipline.
They may be experts, but not in a pure scientific way. As to the quality of their expertise I wouldn’t dream to question but I honestly couldn’t take their opinions on science with any certainty.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I think you have me confused with Bluematt. The second paragraph you have in italics were written by him, not me.

You are absolutely right.

My apologies all round.

 

[Healdplace]

Scotland 3 wks ago v 2 wks v last wk v today

Deaths: 50 v 64 v 54 v 44 today - which is a hopeful decline.

Cases: 1433 v 1261 v 1264 v 880 today - is again a positive downward direction.

Patients: 1257 v 1235 v 1241 v 1161 today - is also looking on a downward track.

Ventilator icu: 94 v 98 v 88 v 84 today - again trending down even as deaths are falling is good news.

There are many similarities between the data in Scotland and the NW right now. Mostly good trends too from both.

 

[squirtyflower]

You are absolutely right.

My apologies all round.

No problem, I couldn’t understand why I got such a reaction.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Before checking in online most Airlines ask for pre departure information, passport details, DOB, country of origin, etc. Surely this could be used to add in a section for the Covid vaccine. All dependent on how the government deals with vaccine information, a digital certificate shouldn't be too difficult to process.

I agree about booking information having something added.

I think it would need more than a digital certificate, unless they set it up like the US ESTA form and make it mandatory.

I assume that when they come to mass vaccinations, there will be a paper copy handed out (which will have two stamps on it), and maybe a central database that it can be downloaded from - a lot of data and accuracy needed for the latter though.