COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[Churchlawtonblue]

Yes met him a few times. Very sound man. They are good people.

I can certainly vouch for that. They are great to work for.

 

[Ric]

A hypothetical question - I live in Stockport which is in Tier 3 (despite having relatively low infection rates), but Poynton, a few miles away, is in Tier 2. Would I be breaking the rules by going to a restaurant in Poynton?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

What do you think about Fred Done and his Salboy property arm? I was his Account Manager many years ago (when he was just North West based) and he treated me really well, not seen him for years but he is one of the most quietly determined characters I ever met, not bad for a Salford lad who started off with one betting shop in his home City.

We do alot of work for them. They are great to work for.

 

[domalino]

I never once said they did. How are you interpreting it in that way? You're more intelligent than this. Don't be disingenuous man, it's unfair. I'm trying to judge based of what we categorically know, not presumptions.

My point was that they don't (currently) fall in line with the Swiss OR the UK. All we know is they're reviewing the data. They might decide they need more. They might not. Just because they haven't said anything yet it doesn't mean they have a stance either way. That's a pretty fair conclusion isn't it?

Simple question - do you think pre-existing conditions are unimportant?

You have absolutely no idea how important or unimportant breaking down all the pre-existing conditions of the 43,000 people in the trial are. You don't.

You've seen a line in an article about them and decided that suddenly you know more about how important they are than the MHRA.

And then you have the gall to talk about being disingenuous.

Also we have had updates from the EMA and FDA yesterday about their progress, and both have said they need more time to analyse the data. That is fundamentally different to saying you don't have all the date needed to make a decision. So yes, we do know the EMA and FDA are in disagreement with the Swiss because if they needed more data, they would have mentioned it when explaining why they haven't approved the vaccine yet.

 

[Tonster]

A hypothetical question - I live in Stockport which is in Tier 3 (despite having relatively low infection rates), but Poynton, a few miles away, is in Tier 2. Would I be breaking the rules by going to a restaurant in Poynton?

You'd be breaking the 'guidance' but not the law. It's advice only not law. I live in Offerton and Poynton is only 3 miles away from me!

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

BBC 5 Live were saying there was optimism amongst the scientific community that the Oxford vaccine would be approved by Christmas. I think they are also going for EMA clearance who don’t seem to be put off by negative briefings from the States.

I think having the BioNtech / Pfizer vaccine approved puts us in a stronger position if we have to negotiate for additional vaccines, without getting exploited.

the AZ vaccine is so cheap anyway. non profit.

 

[Healdplace]

The REALLY good news about the now approved vaccine and the reason it is difficult to deploy is the unique way it was created using very novel techniques that were impossible for science to do even a few years ago.

If this works as well as it looks there is no reason that it will only be significant for drugs against viruses - it may actually be able to be adapted to find solutions to some of the things medicine has a really hard time combatting. And potentially other things we cannot guess right now.

This could be a great step not just against this disease but for the entire human race. It is that big a deal. Because - unlike the Oxford vaccine - important as that will be if approved given its cheap costs and ease of deployment - the one now approved is a big scientific breakthrough on a par with discovering X Rays or Penicillin almost by chance without knowing at the start how they would revolutionise the world.

The scientists are so excited about this not only because of this pandemic but because it proves the methodology and opens the door to so many other life saving possibilities. It is on a par with finding a cure for cancer.

 

[M18CTID]

the absolute defence of MHRA is interesting - that's the EU and the US that have now questioned the UK's speed. Now, i dont know either way, but the jumping to the MHRA's defence is curious. But i suppose we will see in time.

I don’t think it’s an absolute defence. They’re (the US and EU) are implying that the MHRA have cut corners. If that’s the case then fine but show us the evidence rather than spouting off. It just sounds like sour grapes to me because the UK has approved it first. Personally, if the Pfizer vaccine is good to go then I’d rather see every country get to roll it out as soon as possible rather than everyone trying to Top Trump each other. If the US and/or the EU delay their approval for too long, there will be a lot of rightfully pissed off people in those countries when they see the UK infection rates dropping as the effects of the vaccine roll out start to take hold

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I have read a few articles and the USA / FDA tend to approve (or not) vaccines around scheduled meetings. They may not this time and could give emergency clearances but it is a politically loaded issue. 78% of Americans in one poll were found to think the process for assessing and agreeing a vaccine(s) was politically driven. Therefore, approving the vaccine in advance of a scheduled meeting rather than afterwards (Pfizer/BioNtech being discussed on 10th December and Moderna on the 17th) might further undermine public confidence. Time will tell.

As long as the MHRA followed their framework for approval (as they did) then that’s the job done.

 

[twosips]

This cutting corners because this vaccine has been created and approved in record time does not take into account three things that are very different this time than has ever been true:

1: A GLOBAL pandemic that became one within weeks not months or years meant almost every wealthy nation put money into this to try to save their economy from tanking. Meaning a ginormous budget never seen before.

2: A GLOBAL market for any successful vaccine that meant drug companies had a huge incentive to invest too because the rewards from global sales were gigantic unlike with a Far East virus or an African one that might never go any further.

3: The very high infectiveness of this virus and how it spread so fast taking new countries almost daily made testing and trialling much easier than with most diseases because these trials require a base limit of cases you must wait to collate - possibly for years - and if you only have to wait weeks instead of months or years to collate that data then the process is sped up in ways that it usually is not.

Not a conspiracy or corner cutting. Just a very insidious disease with a global imperative to resolve asap.

I don't think we're cutting corners btw. I don't think its fair either that being naturally curious or asking questions is seen as a precursor to conspiracy theorists. Science is literally built on asking questions and I don't think its unreasonable for anyone to ponder why the UK and the Swiss could see things differently.

My brother is a flat earther/bill gates chip type conspiracy theorist. It has driven me mad for the past 15 years to the point where we've come to blows. I cannot stand it all. I couldn't be further from that as I try and lead my life based on logic and quantifiable truths. I'm just a naturally inquisitive person. If leading medical professionals are asking questions about data then there's nowt wrong with having a think about it too. I trust the MHRA, but I certainly don't trust people are perfect and I'm definitely curious as to why two countries would view things differently. I think that's fair enough.